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FR-S / BRZ vs.... Area to discuss the FR-S/BRZ against its competitors [NO STREET RACING]


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Old 10-21-2018, 01:54 AM   #99
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You're right that the BRZ tS is faster than the Civic Si... by a fraction of a second. And it costs nearly $10k more. It's almost the same exact price as a Civic Type R which DESTROYS both of them on the track.
Yes but the BRZ tS doesn't have any extra power. So a standard BRZ with the the same MPS4 tires will get a lap time much closer to a tS than a stock BRZ on the original Prius tires. In fact, it may be a bit faster since the tS has all that aero which is good for a technical track, but VIR has really long ass straights, where less aero would be better.

And you mention that the BRZ will get smoked by a Camry. I hope you realize that the Si and BRZ have the same 0-60 times (6.3 seconds). So they would both get smoked by a V6 camry but not the standard 4 cylinder Camry that everyone buys. Since 90% of Camry buyers go for the 4 cylinder I don't get why this seems to be such a big deal for people. And no, minivans aren't faster than BRZs or Si's either.
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Old 10-21-2018, 08:06 AM   #100
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@motrek

Look, its pretty obvious at this point that the 86 is not the car for you. We can argue all day about what characteristics make a car "good" but the bottom line is that you should get a car that makes you happy when you drive it. For me, my FR-S is that car. If you think a Civic Si would make you happy, buy that.
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Old 10-21-2018, 10:10 AM   #101
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@motrek

Look, its pretty obvious at this point that the 86 is not the car for you. We can argue all day about what characteristics make a car "good" but the bottom line is that you should get a car that makes you happy when you drive it. For me, my FR-S is that car. If you think a Civic Si would make you happy, buy that.
This. I knew from the first time I saw one that I had to have an 86. I still test drove a Civic Si just to be fair, but I found every reason in the world not to like it, not the least of which was that it felt just like the Civic LX that my teenage daughter drove.

Either you're an 86 guy or you're not. If you aren't, you'll never be able to see past its flaws. If you are, you'll never care about them.

Get the Civic.

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Old 10-21-2018, 12:02 PM   #102
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If there's anything I've learned over the years with buying cars, it's that if you need to talk yourself and have others talk you into buying one, it's probably not the right car for you.


Any and every car is going to have a compromise somewhere.
But
But
But
I want a car with super car styling, muscle car power, luxury car comfort, prestige car fit and finish, sports car handling, minivan utility (notice I did not use the word practical) and I want it for under $30,000. I should not be forced to comprise so why would they? They should just make the car I want at the price I want to pay.
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Old 10-21-2018, 12:46 PM   #103
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Old 10-21-2018, 04:19 PM   #104
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I'm not really going to give a suggestion here because it seems that neither car will 100% satisfy your needs and wants; you'll have to compromise, one way or the other.

However, I think this thread on CivicX might help you in coming to a decision.
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Old 10-21-2018, 07:13 PM   #105
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I'm not really going to give a suggestion here because it seems that neither car will 100% satisfy your needs and wants; you'll have to compromise, one way or the other.

However, I think this thread on CivicX might help you in coming to a decision.
From what I read in that thread is that people are not satisfied wirh the twins ability to be a DD. They wanted stop and go power for their money, and they all wanted a little bit more "luxury" too. I get that. I don't track my car and I've never done autoX yet, but I can tell that power isn't what this car is about. My girlfriend has a stage 2 WRX and as fast as it is, that's all that it is.
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Old 10-22-2018, 10:09 AM   #106
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-The 17+ models ride a bit softer and I think are a bit quieter than the pre-facelift models. The car was actually quieter than I thought it would be.

-Exhaust will definitely make it louder (potential drone might drive you nuts as well) and the ride will be stiffer when its lowered.

-If you want/need cargo space, the car isn't for you.

-If you want luxuries/creature comforts, the car isn't really for you. Aside from the lack of modernish tech, the car isn't actually any worse for comfort than your typical Toyota/Subaru econobox (Corolla/Impreza)
Are you expecting Porsche levels of comfort and refinement from this thing just because the 86 is a sports car and a Porsche is a sports car? Because that's not a fair comparison.....

Its a Toyota/Subaru sports car, not a Porsche sports car, and its not priced as a Porsche sports car...its not competing against Porsche.

Power is what it is. Its not super powerful off the line and you have to rev the crap out of the engine to get the power. If you don't like that you need a car with a bigger motor and/or a turbo motor.

If you have to convince yourself to like this car in any particular way, you are most likely not going to like this car in the long run.
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Old 10-22-2018, 11:08 AM   #107
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I am sure some ppl may have touched on these points. But

The test showing the civic being faster was compared to a 2013 brz with terrible tires. The newer brz with 5hp and better tires was quicker then civic si. And this is also on one specific course with longer/faster straights and less angled turns. Favoring faster cars vs handling cars. On a lot of different tracks favoring better handling/braking, I see the 86 platform pacing a lot of those cars way higher in the list. I think this point would illustrate itself a lot more in autocross for example.

Next, the civic is a 1.5liter making 20lbs of boost. I don’t see too much more
Room for improvement. And I’m not sure how much of an aftermarket at least compared to the 86 the si has.

I think stock for stock the civic si is probably better in a lot of ways. BUT the 86 doe have subjectivily way better styling and overall driver feel in my opinion.

I think the decision comes down to your goals and plans for the car. The 86 is a wonderful platform to build off of.
You can probably get base model out the door civic for 25k or 86 for 27.5k and enjoy the civic more in certain regards.

But if your willing to turn that 27.5k car into a 33k car you’ll have a more stylish completely unique and tailored to you vehicle that is faster and way quicker on any track. And if you take it a step further to about 38-40k you can have that and 280+whp and have a monster on the tracks/canyons/backroads/autox/ and still have respectable straight line speed. All of which will be better then the civic even if you put
5k-15k into that. As the 86 is just a solid starting platform with amazing styling. Even if you just spent 2k on wider lightweight rims / better tires. You would save 6seconds easy compared to the 13’ brz on that list. And another 3k for BBK and suspension probably another 4sec.
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Old 10-22-2018, 11:23 AM   #108
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Some good info and a lot of bad. I would just try to take the objective points and stick with your subjective desire. For every person saying the brz is better because it's more divided, there is a person who bought the brz over a Misty's because it's more compromise regarding sport. We all get rationalizing decisions just like you.
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Old 10-22-2018, 11:32 AM   #109
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Like everybody said, if you are cross shopping between all those hot hatches and a sports car, you need a hatchback, not sports car. ...
Lol, yes, forgive me for cross-shopping cars that have similar dimensions, weights, prices, amounts of horsepower, lap times on a track, etc. What an absurd concept.
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Old 10-22-2018, 11:35 AM   #110
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...
I can tell you anything I want. You cannot compare a $25k car with a $90k car and a $200k car. That is absurd in every possible way. I can have it any way I want. The first definition of a sports car means that the only currently selling car that would be defined as such is the Miata. A 911 is a luxury car that is sporty. A Lambo is a supercar. Expecting a $25k car to compete with either in any way is silly.
I'm not expecting them to compete, I'm pointing out the inanity of saying that sports cars are supposed to be loud and have harsh rides when there are sports cars that have quiet cabins and smooth rides.

A car that's loud and harsh out of necessity is not SUPPOSED to be loud and harsh. There's a difference.
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Old 10-22-2018, 11:55 AM   #111
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Okay so I had a couple hours free yesterday and managed to get to the nearby Subaru dealership and test-drove a stock BRZ. Words can't even begin to describe the difference between the stock BRZ and the 86 with the TRD exhaust and suspension.

With the TRD exhaust, the cabin is literally too loud to have a conversation when accelerating, you have to yell. I feel like a long road trip might have resulted in permanent hearing loss. With the stock BRZ, the cabin was as quiet as any other lightweight car I've been in, maybe a little quieter, and I didn't even bother to plug the hole in the footwell.

With the TRD suspension, the car felt like it was going to shake itself to pieces driving along on smooth highway. With the stock suspension, the ride was as smooth as my BMW 3-series with the sport suspension option. Extremely comfortable. Very pleasant.

Also, the stock BRZ felt faster driving around town. I checked some message boards and it seems like the TRD exhaust might have moved the torque curve towards the upper rev range, so that's why the car felt ridiculously slow (and LOUD) when accelerating during regular street driving in the 2000-3000 range.

I'm now 100% sure that I will be buying an 86/BRZ as my next car, probably in about 4-6 months, since that's when I'll need to put new brakes and tires on my current car. I can hardly wait. Really looking forward to it.

So, thanks to everybody who answered my questions on this forum thoughtfully and honestly. And no thanks to the people who basically told me to eff off and buy the Civic because I don't "get it." That was not helpful.
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Old 10-22-2018, 12:05 PM   #112
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And no thanks to the people who basically told me to eff off and buy the Civic because I don't "get it." That was not helpful.




You basically asked for it with your thread title. Sorry, but this is a forum... GIGO!
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