No factory turbos for GT86 says Karl Schlicht (Toyota Motor Europe VP)

[subiestyle]

Originally Posted by imag

I agree. I cannot figure out why the Japanese won't learn from the Germans and the Italians when it comes to special editions and upgrades. A one-size-fits-all approach just isn't the right approach for sports cars. And a fancy paint job is not what people are asking for.



That is a really good point. I can't think of another car with that kind of hunger for power upgrades either.

The Japanese are doing exactly what the consumer want.

You like the hundreds of little addons that Porsche does? The silly trim options that should've come standard.

This is a 25-30K sports car and is exactly what we wanted. Not a 35-40K car optioned out with 2 tone leather.

[FRSupra]

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

The refresh for this car and siblings will not be a turbo car. That is not what this car was intended, nor made for. This car was made for lightweight, snappy performance on instant tap. I can see the refresh being a 230-240 hp STi or TRD version with a larger exhaust, stickier tires, a tighter suspension, tune and compete with the S2K. A turbo 86 would not compete with any subaru lineup, since thats what subaru has been doing for years, turbo H4's.

As soon as the refresh model shows up, it will take its place probably just under the Mustang GT. While the used car market would see an influx of original 86's from owners who are willing to drop the car to pick up the upgrade, driving down the price of the original FT86. This is exactly when people want to buy the car. Its classic economics.

This should be the end-all post for this thread. Although I disagree about the number of them that go used. I have a strong feeling 70%+ will cherish this car for what it is. This is one of the cars that you hold onto for a long time.

Originally Posted by imag

I agree. I cannot figure out why the Japanese won't learn from the Germans and the Italians when it comes to special editions and upgrades. A one-size-fits-all approach just isn't the right approach for sports cars. And a fancy paint job is not what people are asking for.

Are you kidding me? The Japanese have always been and will always be light years ahead of the Germans. Just because the Germans are locked in a horsepower war does not make them superior. Germans cars are hugely unreliable. No matter how hard Audi tries they will always play second fiddle to Toyota and Honda.

Unless it;s bought for a strip down track car, driving a BMW/Porsche/Audi is nothing more than a status symbol in the US. There is no autobahn here for them to break down on.

I cannot stand how German cars have become the world standard, which has pretty much attributed to all the wealthy US snobs who have to have their asses warm in their leather seats while they drive to a Sears auto center to request the cheapest parts possible for their cars, rather than using it to be comfortable on the Autobahn.

Originally Posted by rice_classic

Here's my argument against it.

What's the first instruction in the manual for any maintenance on a Porsche?

"Step 1: Drop engine."
"Step 2..."

Thank you.

Originally Posted by subiestyle

The Japanese are doing exactly what the consumer want.

You like the hundreds of little addons that Porsche does? The silly trim options that should've come standard.

This is a 25-30K sports car and is exactly what we wanted. Not a 35-40K car optioned out with 2 tone leather.

[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by regal

I would hate the insurance rates with a factory turbo. I would hate the quirks, the loss of reliability, throttle response. But it would fun.

It would probably be more expensive than an STi to insure. Imagine how the KIA GT4 Stinger will be insurance quoted at...

Originally Posted by regal

I think this chassis will become a sedan. Its too heavy and slow to be considered a real performance sports car. The reliability ratings are already in the toilet

Fuck no. This car would be WAY to ugly and small as a sedan. The refresh will be either at the end of 2015/2016 car concept year, or at the same time of the FT-1 comes out.

I don't get how the reliability ratings are in the toilet, the car has one of subaru's strongest engines made to date, with a car company with outstanding reliability.


If it would be viable to do cheap and still keep the same engine, a redesign of the car, turning it into an MR setup would make this car a track/back road dream.

[Jond63]

Originally Posted by imag

Wish I liked the way 911s looked. Really hard to argue with this:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/ctd/4354045362.html

Such a value, it's already had $10k in service work done!

[Braces]

Just my opinion, but my issue with the Japanese automakers of the PAST is that they always COPIED their german counterparts. I.e: Nissan used the 911TT as a benchmark for their GTR. Acura NSX was going after the ferrari (okay ...not german)midengine sportcars. Lexus LS luxury cars used Audi, Mercedes, BMW cars as a benchmark. Toyota went after American 1/2 ton trucks. If German cars aren't superior .... then why does everyone want to copy them?

On the topic of the FRS. Instead of it being a one and done model .... why not improve it "incrementally" power and performance wise to keep it relevant. This would keep the loyal 86 buyers interested in the long run.

[Jond63]

Originally Posted by regal

I think this chassis will become a sedan. Its too heavy and slow to be considered a real performance sports car.

This is pretty funny.

[imag]

Originally Posted by subiestyle

The Japanese are doing exactly what the consumer want.

You like the hundreds of little addons that Porsche does? The silly trim options that should've come standard.

This is a 25-30K sports car and is exactly what we wanted. Not a 35-40K car optioned out with 2 tone leather.

Not everyone wants what you want. I would happily pay $35-40K for this chassis with more horsepower, real brakes, and some weight savings. The fact that people have chosen to dump so much money into mods suggests I am not the only one, but I also recognize that not everyone wants what I want.

The Porsche point about options is a totally valid criticism. However, that is not the same point as the one about different variants on the same platform.

And for those who think I am against the Japanese, please get over yourself. I have owned a 370Z, an RX-7, a MR2, a 1965 Datsun roadster. My brother owns an NSX and has owned an S2K, and my parents have gone through Hondas, Toyotas, and Lexii. Not one German car in the bunch. Toyota engineers taught Porsche how to remake themselves into a successful car company, and I have tremendous respect for Toyota.

HOWEVER, I do not want Toyota to make the same mistake Honda made with the NSX and the S2K, in that they didn't seriously upgrade some brilliant chassis. Say what you want about Porsche, but their selection allows a wide variety of options for different customers.

[regal]

Originally Posted by Jond63

This is pretty funny.

key word "sports" car, its one of the heaviest ever made. They even had to change the name to GT when they couldn't keep it under 2500 lbs. I consider it a little GT, a damn fine one (I don't need big horsepower.)

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by regal

key word "sports" car, its one of the heaviest ever made. They even had to change the name to GT when they couldn't keep it under 2500 lbs. I consider it a little GT, a damn fine one (I don't need big horsepower.)

Don't take this the wrong way, but you have the oddest definition of a "GT" car I have ever heard, for a couple of reasons:

1) Putting anything over 2500 lbs into the GT category results in some very odd cars being included. For instance, I've never heard of anyone who considers the Honda S2000 (2850 lbs), Mazda FD RX7 (2790 lbs), Integra Type-R (2600 lbs) and Chevy C6 Corvette Z06 (3175 lbs) as GT cars.

2) Also seems strange lumping those cars into the same category as traditional GT cars like the Infiniti G37 coupe, BMW 435i, Audi A5, etc. Those two categories of cars don't really belong together.

3) By my count, the 2500 lbs limit also means that there are only really two sports cars being produced today, only one of which is even sold in the US. Very narrow definition and it seems strange to include the NC Miata, which toes the line at 2480 lbs, but exclude the S2000.

Curb weight is an important factor, but it can't be the only factor. The purpose and nature of the car has to be considered as well.

[regal]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Don't take this the wrong way, but you have the oddest definition of a "GT" car I have ever heard, for a couple of reasons:

1) Putting anything over 2500 lbs into the GT category results in some very odd cars being included. For instance, I've never heard of anyone who considers the Honda S2000 (2850 lbs), Mazda FD RX7 (2790 lbs), Integra Type-R (2600 lbs) and Chevy C6 Corvette Z06 (3175 lbs) as GT cars.

2) Also seems strange lumping those cars into the same category as traditional GT cars like the Infiniti G37 coupe, BMW 435i, Audi A5, etc. Those two categories of cars don't really belong together.

3) By my count, the 2500 lbs limit also means that there are only really two sports cars being produced today, only one of which is even sold in the US. Very narrow definition and it seems strange to include the NC Miata, which toes the line at 2480 lbs, but exclude the S2000.

Curb weight is an important factor, but it can't be the only factor. The purpose and nature of the car has to be considered as well.

Well 25 years ago those would all be considered GT's, except the TypeR which is a FWD in a class of its own. The S2k was critized heavily for being so heafty in its day. Its the reason I didn't buy one.


Probably the safety regulations have changed things so much that people have forgotten what a archetypic british sports car is. And don't think I'm British biased an AP1 with a turbo is a sports car.


No one considers the W20 MR2 a sports car, its a GT. Ours weigh more.


There is nothing wrong or a complaint its just driving my FRS it feels like a a lot more like a GT than an MG Midget.


You can't comfortably drive 125 mph in most sports cars that GT country.


Whatever you want to call it (Toyota chose GT) its a drivers car and the best thing going in 2014 imho. I do agree weight isn't the only factor. My 80's 6 series BMW was a perect defined GT and this FRS drives a lot more similar to it than classic sports cars.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by regal

Well 25 years ago those would all be considered GT's, except the TypeR which is a FWD in a class of its own. The S2k was critized heavily for being so heafty in its day. Its the reason I didn't buy one.


Probably the safety regulations have changed things so much that people have forgotten what a archetypic british sports car is. And don't think I'm British biased an AP1 with a turbo is a sports car.


No one considers the W20 MR2 a sports car, its a GT. Ours weigh more.


There is nothing wrong or a complaint its just driving my FRS it feels like a a lot more like a GT than an MG Midget.


You can't comfortably drive 125 mph in most sports cars that GT country.


Whatever you want to call it (Toyota chose GT) its a drivers car and the best thing going in 2014 imho. I do agree weight isn't the only factor. My 80's 6 series BMW was a perect defined GT and this FRS drives a lot more similar to it than classic sports cars.

Yeah it sounds like you've got more experience driving older, ultra-lightweight roadsters, so I suppose you've got a reason for your views. Turbo'd AP1 is an interesting exception though.

[Synack]

Why no factory turbos?

#BecauseHeaterCore

[imag]

Originally Posted by Synack

Why no factory turbos?

I am wondering why there is no factory V12.


Probably would require a bigger heater core.

[regal]

Originally Posted by imag

I am wondering why there is no factory V12.


Probably would require a bigger heater core.

From a guy who drives a 60's Datsun this is a bit unfair. Their is plenty room and chassis capability for a little turbo action. And since there is already a factory turbo FA20T I think the no turbo mandate is not a physics or price issue. IMHO they could easily keep it under $30k with the same profit margin.


Someone high up at Toyota or Subaru has a plan. Working in the auto industry we call it "Strategic Planning." Remember these corporations aren't out to make you or the few people on this board happy. They have big plans that affect the whole product line and now BMW is thrown in the mix. Its all about safety, meeting regs, and profit. A turbo has probably been shown thru business cases to not help.