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BRZ First-Gen (2012+) -- General Topics All discussions about the first-gen Subaru BRZ coupe


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Old 04-06-2016, 07:57 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by track junkie View Post
This is easier, faster, and smoother when you are downshifting on the street. You don't need to shift to neutral it's unnecessary.
  1. Clutch in
  2. blip throttle
  3. shift to lower gear
  4. release clutch
This. It took me some time to get used to and I'm still trying to master this method. Besides, it's fun to hear that engine rev up just for a moment. This method makes for a smoother ride.
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Old 04-06-2016, 08:23 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by track junkie View Post
This is easier, faster, and smoother when you are downshifting on the street. You don't need to shift to neutral it's unnecessary.
  1. Clutch in
  2. blip throttle
  3. shift to lower gear
  4. release clutch
Yep this is what I do probably every time I drive. I never shift into neutral when downshifting or skipping gears etc. Steps 2 and 3 are done at the same time for a much quicker and smoother shift.

For heel-toe it's the same deal except my toe is on the brake and my heel is on the gas. I only use that for twisty roads or if I feel like I'm going into a corner too hot. Rarely if ever for daily driving.
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Old 04-06-2016, 08:30 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Wired86 View Post
Damnit. I need just sit in a car with a good manual driver for a while to learn shit. I mean, I can get from point A to point B now, but I want to get better. I want to learn these situations. Trying to figure them out for myself will work I'm sure, but it will take a long time. haha. I'm almost at 1k miles, and I still feel like such a newby.
It just takes practice. Go out on a weekend for 30 to 60 minutes somewhere that has curves and hills. Try rev matching first, then heel and toe when you are comfortable. I have been driving with manual transmissions for 40 years, and I still feel like a rookie.
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Old 04-06-2016, 09:25 PM   #46
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What everyone else said, but would also like to leave this here:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cbZlhduYJY"]5 Things You Should Never Do In A Manual Transmission Vehicle - YouTube[/ame]

That guy also just posted a technical video on heel-toe today, if you have 5mins to kill.
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Old 04-06-2016, 09:28 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Wired86 View Post
Damnit. I need just sit in a car with a good manual driver for a while to learn shit. I mean, I can get from point A to point B now, but I want to get better. I want to learn these situations. Trying to figure them out for myself will work I'm sure, but it will take a long time. haha. I'm almost at 1k miles, and I still feel like such a newby.
Back when YouTube was relatively new I found a series of videos by s0ggyrice that explains how to drive stick pretty well:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...8EA7254AE8EC79

When I was in much younger nobody could teach me how to drive stick like a pro so I just relied on watching a lot of footwork cam from Best Motoring and Hot Version videos lol!
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Old 04-06-2016, 09:34 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by extrashaky View Post
Luftwaffel defined it above, but to put it into easier terms:



This has to do with engine braking, using the compression of the engine to slow the car. If you downshift to use the engine to slow the car, the engine speed (RPM) has to come UP to meet the transmission speed. If you just downshift and drop the clutch, the car's momentum will yank the engine up to speed and shock the entire driveline behind it: transmission, u-joints, differential and axles. You can slip the clutch to bring up the engine speed less abruptly, but that puts more wear on the clutch disc over time.



However, imagine instead that you bring the engine RPM up with the throttle instead, so that it's spinning fast enough that there is no jerk, and you don't have to slip the clutch. That's rev matching. You just blip the throttle up so that the engine speed and transmission input shaft speed match. It puts less wear on the clutch and every component behind it.



Some cars actually rev match for you. The latest Corvette will do it. Apparently you can flash a tune on our cars that will do it also. The computer recognizes when you're downshifting and blips the throttle on your behalf to make your downshifts smoother.



I've been wondering what happens if you try to downshift and the car also tries to downshift.







Most people who use engine braking without rev matching simply slip their clutch to bring up the engine speed. Doing that puts more wear on the clutch surface and springs, but it won't necessarily hurt the car. Maybe it takes 5K or 10K miles off the clutch. Maybe not.







You're right that heel/toe isn't necessary in normal street driving. Rev matching is a good skill to have, though, because that's not really about what's necessary. It's about driving more smoothly and putting less wear on the car. Maybe it'll last a long time without any advanced techniques. Maybe it would last even longer with them.







Not wrong. It's just that the throwout bearing and pressure plate will get less wear if you get into the habit of taking the car out of gear and letting the clutch out when you're going to be sitting long enough for that to make sense. How much less wear? Who knows. Maybe it's not enough to even matter. But it doesn't really hurt anything to do it.



I usually watch the traffic lights or pedestrian signal on the cross street. When it turns yellow, I put the car back in gear to be ready to go.







The part that may not have been clear is that people are talking about engine braking, using engine compression to slow the car instead of/in addition to the wheel brakes. So as that applies to your question, I do in fact step down through the gears one at a time to slow the car. I normally use the engine to slow the car without even thinking about it.



It's a stylistic choice. If I weren't using engine braking, I would do it exactly like you're doing it.



The next obvious question is: Why do I use engine braking?



For one thing, it's smoother and feels more stable. When you use the brake pedal, the car wants to rock forward. Accelerate again and the car rocks back. Use engine braking, and it feels more like the stopping force is more centered.



Second, it keeps you in the correct gear. Suppose traffic in front of me slows down, and I use engine braking to slow down also. Then traffic takes off again. I'm already in the correct gear to accelerate. Suppose I'm in a slow-moving lane, and I get a chance to slip into a hole in a faster-moving lane. The car is already set up for that move before I even know I have the chance to make it.



See, I was taught to always be driving the car. A lot of people are only really driving the car when they're accelerating. If you take the car out of gear and coast to the stop light, coasting really isn't driving. I like to drive the car right up to a stop, ready to drive away from it.


Nice post.
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Old 04-06-2016, 09:41 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tectoniic View Post
I prefer the paddle on the steering wheel for downshifting
I use the gear selector lever.
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Old 04-06-2016, 11:24 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by extrashaky View Post
Second, it keeps you in the correct gear. Suppose traffic in front of me slows down, and I use engine braking to slow down also. Then traffic takes off again. I'm already in the correct gear to accelerate. Suppose I'm in a slow-moving lane, and I get a chance to slip into a hole in a faster-moving lane. The car is already set up for that move before I even know I have the chance to make it.

See, I was taught to always be driving the car. A lot of people are only really driving the car when they're accelerating. If you take the car out of gear and coast to the stop light, coasting really isn't driving. I like to drive the car right up to a stop, ready to drive away from it.
That was a really solid post. I will likely read and reread that as you gave me tons of good tips and advice. I plan to pair this expertise that you provided with:

Quote:
Originally Posted by track junkie View Post
This is easier, faster, and smoother when you are downshifting on the street. You don't need to shift to neutral it's unnecessary.
  1. Clutch in
  2. blip throttle
  3. shift to lower gear
  4. release clutch


Thanks for all the tips and helping out a manual rookie, everyone. I think I know what to do now for a while until I am ready to practice heel toe. What both of these guys said. haha
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Last night I took a corner that would have given me a 4 wheel power slide in the WRX. The BRZ hunkered down and massacred the corner with no loss of traction or speed.
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Old 04-06-2016, 11:36 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Wired86 View Post
That was a really solid post. I will likely read and reread that as you gave me tons of good tips and advice. I plan to pair this expertise that you provided with:





Thanks for all the tips and helping out a manual rookie, everyone. I think I know what to do now for a while until I am ready to practice heel toe. What both of these guys said. haha
I highly encourage you to check out the video @Gaiakai posted also. It's good information, and Engineering Explained is one of my favorite channels, actually. They break down a lot of concepts many people don't grasp in the automotive world.
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Old 04-06-2016, 11:38 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Luftwaffel View Post
I highly encourage you to check out the video @Gaiakai posted also. It's good information, and Engineering Explained is one of my favorite channels, actually. They break down a lot of concepts many people don't grasp in the automotive world.
I actually watched that video about 5 times right before getting my brz and once or twice since I got it a few weeks ago. haha. He has lots of great advice. I have just watched lots of videos and have gotten myself all mixed up on what is best for shifting. You guys straightened me out pretty well, I believe. It is just a matter of practice now.
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Last night I took a corner that would have given me a 4 wheel power slide in the WRX. The BRZ hunkered down and massacred the corner with no loss of traction or speed.
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Old 04-06-2016, 11:38 PM   #53
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I heel toe every time I'm coming to a stop because racecar, and you should always be in gear until you're stopped.
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Old 04-06-2016, 11:46 PM   #54
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I heel toe every time I'm coming to a stop because racecar, and you should always be in gear until you're stopped.
Wouldn't heel toe just be:

1) Clutch in
2) brake + blip throttle (heel toe)
3) shift to lower gear
4) release clutch


So exactly what was said above, plus braking?
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Last night I took a corner that would have given me a 4 wheel power slide in the WRX. The BRZ hunkered down and massacred the corner with no loss of traction or speed.
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Old 04-06-2016, 11:48 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by track junkie View Post
This is easier, faster, and smoother when you are downshifting on the street. You don't need to shift to neutral it's unnecessary.
  1. Clutch in
  2. blip throttle
  3. shift to lower gear
  4. release clutch
No, this is wrong. Blipping the throttle does absolutely nothing for the transmission with the clutch disengaged. If you're going to rev-match blip the throttle just before you engage the clutch.

1. clutch disengaged
2. downshift
3. blip throttle
4. engage clutch
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Old 04-06-2016, 11:48 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wired86 View Post
Wouldn't heel toe just be:

1) Clutch in
2) brake + blip throttle (heel toe)
3) shift to lower gear
4) release clutch


So exactly what was said above, plus braking?


exactly what I meant. I was too lazy to type
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