Staggering 9" rear, 8" front handling experience?

[wbradley]

Have some decent negative camber in front now. I don't feel a huge difference so far on the street. It does seem to get the power down better !

[why?]

Originally Posted by Sapphireho

Interesting how most high end sports cars come staggered.

not really. You throw 500+ hp at a car all through the rear wheels and you need those massive rear tires. Also when it is engineered by the manufacturer they have the ability, time, and money to factor it into the suspension to get the handling exactly where they want.

We are talking about normal people without nearly unlimited r&d budgets. And we are also talking generalities. For most people in this car, staggering will be worse for handling.

[churchx]

why?: actually not for most. Most people never go to track, only commute daily on public roads very far from grip limit. Most often drive car stock. So for most it in most cases wouldn't matter much . Yes, staggered understeer bias may also show up it's ugliness not only when pushing at track, but also when there is lack of grip, like on snow/ice/gravel .. but then again, most of the time, most owners will drive it on dry tarmac.
Of course for driving enthusiasts that may have chosen this car for it's handling and among whose hobbies is also track driving, it's different story, and it seems sacrilege to f*ck up such great drivers car .. but they are not average Joes making up majority, for whom arguable looks or moding in line of their misconceptions how they mistakenly thinking that will improve performance, matters more.
If one doesn't drive nowhere near loosing grip, then it doesn't matter if car is understeer/neutral or oversteer biased unlike for those that do drive at limits. What is wrong in my eyes though, is when guys doing only daily driving or whose driving on track means point and shoot with flooring throttle, advise such mis-setups for ones that may care about handling & control. Or that overdoing something excessive became cool for some.

[wbradley]

I care about the handling, it is the most important aspect of this car! But, it is a tuner car and some will make mistakes since we are all free to choose the combination of aftermarket mods. Of course the team at one of the high end sports cars companies will usually know better than a first timer or a casual hobbiest what is a well thought out combination. As long as they keep it safe and don't do anything that endangers anyone.

My 20mm difference in tread width front to rear is a decision made understanding the compromises. I might lose a bit of the amazing control this car has at it's adhesion limit. Took a gamble.

Will report back after May 21 at Mosport DDT.

[NoHaveMSG]

If you have adjustable sway bars you could always tweak the handling balance that way if you find you are getting a bit of push.

[ZDan]

Added front camber will affect handling balance more than modest tire stagger. -2 or more front camber will hugely benefit front lateral grip vs nearly-zero stock camber. 245 or 255 rears add lateral grip at the rear of the car. Boom, you've added lateral grip to both the front and the rear without resorting to wider and heavier wheels and tires at the steered end of the car.

Even with no other changes, going to 225/245 stagger is just not that huge a deal. It's not like you're losing front grip relative to 225/225.

I've run everything from 255/265 to 235/275 on the FD at the track, and disconnecting/reconnecting the stock rear sway bar was enough to keep handling balance where I needed it. This was a pretty modest change suspension change, considering the car is on springs about 3x stiffer than stock and has a massive front sway bar, the coat-hanger-wire stock rear bar isn't that huge a player...

[why?]

Originally Posted by churchx

why?: actually not for most. Most people never go to track, only commute daily on public roads very far from grip limit. Most often drive car stock. So for most it in most cases wouldn't matter much . Yes, staggered understeer bias may also show up it's ugliness not only when pushing at track, but also when there is lack of grip, like on snow/ice/gravel .. but then again, most of the time, most owners will drive it on dry tarmac.
Of course for driving enthusiasts that may have chosen this car for it's handling and among whose hobbies is also track driving, it's different story, and it seems sacrilege to f*ck up such great drivers car .. but they are not average Joes making up majority, for whom arguable looks or moding in line of their misconceptions how they mistakenly thinking that will improve performance, matters more.
If one doesn't drive nowhere near loosing grip, then it doesn't matter if car is understeer/neutral or oversteer biased unlike for those that do drive at limits. What is wrong in my eyes though, is when guys doing only daily driving or whose driving on track means point and shoot with flooring throttle, advise such mis-setups for ones that may care about handling & control. Or that overdoing something excessive became cool for some.

Yea but those people don't matter. If they are doing it just for show then they probably aren't ever going to drive it hard anyways.

It is just more important to me to highlight what you mentioned, and say that for performance driving odds are it will screw up handling.

Until people get to the point where they actually know what they are doing, like the op seems to do. Then trial and error type stuff can be beneficial to all of us.

[chaoskaze]

well toyota runs their 86 in NBR races with slightly staggered setup & all the super special edition that they sell in japan too.......so.......


obviously if you know what you are doing, go ahead.

[Aipex8]

Originally Posted by chaoskaze

well toyota runs their 86 in NBR races with slightly staggered setup & all the super special edition that they sell in japan too.......so.......


obviously if you know what you are doing, go ahead.

The 18" TRD wheels are staggered too, but only by 1/2" (7" in front, 7.5" in rear). Having said that, I couldn't find what tire they recommend, but wouldn't you just use the same size tire on both 7" and 7.5" wheels? What's the point of staggering?

[chaoskaze]

Originally Posted by Aipex8

The 18" TRD wheels are staggered too, but only by 1/2" (7" in front, 7.5" in rear). Having said that, I couldn't find what tire they recommend, but wouldn't you just use the same size tire on both 7" and 7.5" wheels? What's the point of staggering?

Well that's US TRD so we all have zero clues

But on like 86 GRMN they run 215/40R17 x7.5 front & 235/40R17 X8.5 in the rear. But the car has a race prep FA20 making 220hp along with higher redline, tuned suspension with various chassis reinforcement throughout the body.

The price is enough for you to get a 2J quad turbo twins thou......lol

https://toyotagazooracing.com/pages/grmn/86/#!/

on the newer & cheaper version GR86, it's 215/45/R17 x7.5 235/45/R17 X8.5. This one actually isn't that much different from road going version....so it's a lot money for toyota blings.

https://toyotagazooracing.com/jp/gr/gr86

[nextcar]

Originally Posted by Aipex8

The 18" TRD wheels are staggered too, but only by 1/2" (7" in front, 7.5" in rear). Having said that, I couldn't find what tire they recommend, but wouldn't you just use the same size tire on both 7" and 7.5" wheels? What's the point of staggering?

The TRD setup in the US is 215 front 225 rear. I have the setup; however I am changing to lighter wheels and 215 square next tire change... Only driveline mods are TRD airbox and 4.56 rear gears. In 20,000 miles of spirited driving my MPSS fronts have 80% left and my rears are at the wear bars. Going to square 17x7.5 inch wheels for the ability of rotating tires - going lighter too, but I really don't know if that will matter. I should be dropping over 6lbs/corner (hint: the cast TRD wheels are not light!) I was thinking of going 225 all around, but those tires at 5 lbs heavier than 215s with the new PS4. I don't know if I will really notice the difference, but if nothing else it should improve braking distance!

[Leonardo]

It was time to order tires. I have been using 225/40 & 245/35 MPSS on my 18x8 & 18x9. Decided to try a different tire this time based on my budget, reviews, and the fact that it is about to be summer. They cost 1/3 less than the Michelins.


215/40/18 Hankook v12 evo 2 Tread width 7.4"
245/35/18 Hankook v12 evo 2 Tread width 8.4"





The tires will have the same diameter now, and If tirerack is accurate, they are crazy lightweight @ 19lbs and 22lbs. Aesthetically, the stretch should look the same now on each wheel too.


I am adding a second set of camber bolts in the front to make my camber -2 all around. Review to come soon. I have to install an ignition coil before I start driving my car again though.....

[chaoskaze]

Originally Posted by Leonardo

It was time to order tires. I have been using 225/40 & 245/35 MPSS on my 18x8 & 18x9. Decided to try a different tire this time based on my budget, reviews, and the fact that it is about to be summer. They cost 1/3 less than the Michelins.


215/40/18 Hankook v12 evo 2 Tread width 7.4"
245/35/18 Hankook v12 evo 2 Tread width 8.4"





The tires will have the same diameter now, and If tirerack is accurate, they are crazy lightweight @ 19lbs and 22lbs. Aesthetically, the stretch should look the same now on each wheel too.


I am adding a second set of camber bolts in the front to make my camber -2 all around. Review to come soon. I have to install an ignition coil before I start driving my car again though.....

They are cheaper but ride qualitywise MPSS is just really hard to beat.... I really need another set of wheel after i put on the Gt-radials for 86 cup. Got spoiled by those MPSSs

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by nextcar

The TRD setup in the US is 215 front 225 rear. I have the setup; however I am changing to lighter wheels and 215 square next tire change... Only driveline mods are TRD airbox and 4.56 rear gears. In 20,000 miles of spirited driving my MPSS fronts have 80% left and my rears are at the wear bars. Going to square 17x7.5 inch wheels for the ability of rotating tires - going lighter too, but I really don't know if that will matter. I should be dropping over 6lbs/corner (hint: the cast TRD wheels are not light!) I was thinking of going 225 all around, but those tires at 5 lbs heavier than 215s with the new PS4. I don't know if I will really notice the difference, but if nothing else it should improve braking distance!

I have 225's square with PS4's on my 2018 BRZ Limited with 17" stock wheels. Only drove the 215 Primacies for a week, but the handling and ride did change. There was less understeer, the car was slightly more stable in turns, and the ride slightly improved. I don't know how much change was due to increased width and how much to the upgrade to PS4's. I would guess, however, that most of the change was due to the choice of PS4's. The 215 PS4's have a slightly narrower tread width than stock, which is why I went with the 225's. I really don't know if the 215 PS4's will be any better/worse, but I don't suspect they will be drastically different. The 225's only weighed about 2 pounds more and the spec sheet from Michelin was wrong.