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Old 01-17-2020, 02:15 PM   #29
Calum
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Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG View Post
This car doesn't need much rear bar. I have been hunting for a used stock rear one, on a perrin 16mm now.
www.car-part.com They're like $50.
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Old 01-17-2020, 02:32 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering View Post
All-season tires and big bars can do that, especially with an unknown alignment. I would also recommend adjustable endlinks with adjustable swaybars.

Though remember they're hollow bars, so approx 22/16 if solid. Eibach has changed their wall thickness at least once but it's close to that.

Either way, get some new tires, adjustable endlinks, and a good performance alignment.

- Andrew
It currently has adjustable endlinks and the bars themselves. Will likely have to get more technical with the adjustments of the endlinks though.
Yes, the sway bars are equivalent to something like 22/16 solid.

Considering tires now and may do an alignment soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrhayes1 View Post
If you are on Firehawk all seasons, a better tire would probably make a big difference. What you described in the main reason why I haven't touched my suspension on this car. First because I don't know what I'm doing much, have no desire to track, and I don't want to upset the balance. Why not just sell them and go back to stock? Stiffer sway bars and less body roll isn't necessarily better...it may make the car feel better around corners, but may also be slower.
I used to feel the same way with my car. "Well, it could be cool to lift it, or lower it, or do XYZ, but...what if it's bad? What if it handles worse? Or it's really uncomfortable? What if the exhaust is too loud and I get a headache on the highway?"
I finally decided to commit and learn something rather than asking "what if"

The entire purpose of putting on these sway bars in specific, or modifying the car in general, is to learn more about vehicle dynamics. And now I know a lot more than I did before. Even knowing ok, this is gonna be different, I should be careful, I was still caught off guard because I had no firsthand experience. I just knew, factually, it will behave differently. Now I know what it feels like, and the connection between stiffer rear --> more likely to slide out is reinforced mentally.
I can also make an informed decision if I want to stay with the Eibach bars, or maybe look for something between these and stock rather than guesstimating.

Running back home with my tail between my legs (throwing stock parts back on) for the sake of "not upsetting the balance" probably won't do me any favors.

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Originally Posted by wparsons View Post
This is a great point. Less body roll does not automatically mean more grip.
I don't want to get all nerdy about it - I am one with the car. I can feel it in my soul. The engine and my heartbeat have fused - but it's sort of like a precision tool.
It may be more likely to have sharp oversteer, but if you can ride that narrow line where you're drawing the maximum handling benefits but right before the limit of losing traction, then it would be a positive.
The issue is if taking the new limit of grip is better or worse than before.
Sure, it's possible that even a novice driver on the stock parts, could take a turn better than an experienced driver on these sway bars, but I'm doubtful that's the case here.

Think about an F1 car. Assuming I can even get it moving, just because I spin out doesn't mean the car is poorly set up. It's an extremely fine-tuned precision instrument. Suspension designed to perfection. Me spinning it out doesn't give me any right to say "obviously the rear sway bar is too big."


Now that I've had a chance to drive the car in a variety of conditions, it's been interesting. I've still been cautious, but it hasn't swung out on me at all. I pushed it through a few highway exit ramps, and it easily stayed tight to the inside even already going faster than I expected.
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Old 01-17-2020, 03:39 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Stomachbuzz View Post
I don't want to get all nerdy about it - I am one with the car. I can feel it in my soul. The engine and my heartbeat have fused - but it's sort of like a precision tool.
It may be more likely to have sharp oversteer, but if you can ride that narrow line where you're drawing the maximum handling benefits but right before the limit of losing traction, then it would be a positive.
The issue is if taking the new limit of grip is better or worse than before.
Sure, it's possible that even a novice driver on the stock parts, could take a turn better than an experienced driver on these sway bars, but I'm doubtful that's the case here.

Think about an F1 car. Assuming I can even get it moving, just because I spin out doesn't mean the car is poorly set up. It's an extremely fine-tuned precision instrument. Suspension designed to perfection. Me spinning it out doesn't give me any right to say "obviously the rear sway bar is too big."


Now that I've had a chance to drive the car in a variety of conditions, it's been interesting. I've still been cautious, but it hasn't swung out on me at all. I pushed it through a few highway exit ramps, and it easily stayed tight to the inside even already going faster than I expected.

My point was ignoring driver skill... too much roll stiffness for the rest of the setup (tires especially), especially from just sway bars, can end up with less mechanical grip even with the best driver behind the wheel.
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Old 01-17-2020, 03:58 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stomachbuzz View Post
It currently has adjustable endlinks and the bars themselves. Will likely have to get more technical with the adjustments of the endlinks though.
Yes, the sway bars are equivalent to something like 22/16 solid.

Considering tires now and may do an alignment soon.



I used to feel the same way with my car. "Well, it could be cool to lift it, or lower it, or do XYZ, but...what if it's bad? What if it handles worse? Or it's really uncomfortable? What if the exhaust is too loud and I get a headache on the highway?"
I finally decided to commit and learn something rather than asking "what if"

The entire purpose of putting on these sway bars in specific, or modifying the car in general, is to learn more about vehicle dynamics. And now I know a lot more than I did before. Even knowing ok, this is gonna be different, I should be careful, I was still caught off guard because I had no firsthand experience. I just knew, factually, it will behave differently. Now I know what it feels like, and the connection between stiffer rear --> more likely to slide out is reinforced mentally.
I can also make an informed decision if I want to stay with the Eibach bars, or maybe look for something between these and stock rather than guesstimating.

Running back home with my tail between my legs (throwing stock parts back on) for the sake of "not upsetting the balance" probably won't do me any favors.



I don't want to get all nerdy about it - I am one with the car. I can feel it in my soul. The engine and my heartbeat have fused - but it's sort of like a precision tool.
It may be more likely to have sharp oversteer, but if you can ride that narrow line where you're drawing the maximum handling benefits but right before the limit of losing traction, then it would be a positive.
The issue is if taking the new limit of grip is better or worse than before.
Sure, it's possible that even a novice driver on the stock parts, could take a turn better than an experienced driver on these sway bars, but I'm doubtful that's the case here.

Think about an F1 car. Assuming I can even get it moving, just because I spin out doesn't mean the car is poorly set up. It's an extremely fine-tuned precision instrument. Suspension designed to perfection. Me spinning it out doesn't give me any right to say "obviously the rear sway bar is too big."


Now that I've had a chance to drive the car in a variety of conditions, it's been interesting. I've still been cautious, but it hasn't swung out on me at all. I pushed it through a few highway exit ramps, and it easily stayed tight to the inside even already going faster than I expected.
I think there's a clear difference between trail and error and changing parts without knowing what they do.

A good approach is, do not throw on a part unless you know what behaviour or problem you're trying to fix. If you know your issue/problem then work smart to understand what part is best suited to address said problem within the confines of your means (time, budget, etc.)

It sounds like you knew a higher roll stiffness in the rear would induce oversteer and you just reinforced it by buying a stiffer bar. That is not something one would say was a good purchase.

Also, just because Eibach makes stiffer bars, doesn't mean the car requires it. It's a bread and butter part for them and other aftermarket companies. Their product development usually goes something like this:

New platform released>Take stock bar diameter and +1/2mm>Sell product.

The simple fact is that you changed suspension parts while running on all season tires, this alone tells us you did not do adequate research prior to purchasing these parts.
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Old 01-17-2020, 10:07 PM   #33
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The simple fact is that you changed suspension parts while running on all season tires, this alone tells us you did not do adequate research prior to purchasing these parts.
You'll be the first person I tell when I wreck
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Old 01-17-2020, 11:11 PM   #34
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I am guilty as well of buying parts just to learn. The knowledge can be just as valuable as an increase in performance.
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