The 86 on Toyota's Chopping Block ?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

0-60 in less than 2 seconds.

And by that time every other car will be 0-60 in less than 1

So its still going to be a slow car that can be beating by minivans.

I think the minivans may be slower. At least in the atmosphere.

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by xenarc

Toyota releases the the BR-S. Back to its roots and its classic 2.0 Boxer engine
https://www.carscoops.com/2011/12/20...this-is-final/

Wow those comments on the article are so petty and cancerous hahaha but they obviously haven't changed over the years.

[mrg666]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

2086 Special edition.
Still no turbo.

It still looks slower than a minivan though. Even a turbo will not make it fast.

This car is such a flop, just cancel it already. Engine is terrible to begin with. It fails at 300 whp.

[xenarc]

The 2019 Corolla now released the Hatch version with a 2.0 and it packs 168hp. Our cars are still at 200HP. We need to see a bump in HP and Torque. This is BS!

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by GrantedTaken

This was inevitable
The 86 was the most misunderstood and mismarketed car of all time.

Even most 86 owners don't get it.
Fools blab on about turbo and mods from day one.
They need a mustang GT

Sadly, most car guys are morons.
They mod the crap out of it trying to make it something it's not supposed to be

There is simply no other car like it in the market today.
I plan on driving mine forever.
I'm glad I got mine and hope parts don't disappear.

RIP.

Actually the designers had modifications in mind from inception. If you look at the intention behind a car like the S2000 - the designer was upset to see people modify what he thought of "perfect" or "complete" but the opposite is true of the 86. The 86 is intended to be platform for enthusiasts and modifiers. This is a pretty incredible thing that is extremely rare in automotive design/intent.

I can't speak to your opinion of enthusiasts - I think we all enjoy our toys with the level of knowledge and money we have at the time and at times there's lots of us with little of both - but generally, time changes both as well.

I think the turbo needs to stay off the table - leave that to the enthusiast to install. However I think a simple refresh, or even a different trim line that gives the community 'enough' of a performance bump without a full chassis redesign to accommodate it.

1: Possibly bump displacement to 2.2L engine. (but then it won't have a bore/stroke of 86/86 - not sure if that's a problem for marketing)
2: Better flowing header/exhaust. (eliminate torque curve)
3: Better tires.

I think a 40hp/30tq increase while still meeting CA emissions and CAFE restrictions would be enough to quiet the vast majority of dissent and reinvigorate enthusiasm.

The problem I see, however, is that Toyota would unlikely be able to sell it for <28k and once you're in the 30k+ range - there's a lot of other really fun (and turbo) cars.

[MrDinkleman]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

1: Possibly bump displacement to 2.2L engine. (but then it won't have a bore/stroke of 86/86 - not sure if that's a problem for marketing)

If marketing is important, can always go to a 3l I6 (got 2JZGE?). 😁😀

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

2086 Special edition.
Still no turbo.

It's already in production, but sadly they went electric...

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by MrDinkleman

If marketing is important, can always go to a 3l I6 (got 2JZGE?). 😁😀

2JayZ is always the answer!


Another idea is that if Subaru doesn't want the car anymore, Toyota could re-release it with one of their 2.5L inline engines like a tweaked variation of the 5AR-FE which has D4-S. They could probably do something like 200hp/185Tq on 87 octane - then let the owner add 20+ on 91 with a tune.

In fact, one thing I would like is a FRS that didn't require premium fuel - TBH that would really appeal to me!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

Actually the designers had modifications in mind from inception. If you look at the intention behind a car like the S2000 - the designer was upset to see people modify what he thought of "perfect" or "complete" but the opposite is true of the 86. The 86 is intended to be platform for enthusiasts and modifiers. This is a pretty incredible thing that is extremely rare in automotive design/intent.

I can't speak to your opinion of enthusiasts - I think we all enjoy our toys with the level of knowledge and money we have at the time and at times there's lots of us with little of both - but generally, time changes both as well.

I think the turbo needs to stay off the table - leave that to the enthusiast to install. However I think a simple refresh, or even a different trim line that gives the community 'enough' of a performance bump without a full chassis redesign to accommodate it.

1: Possibly bump displacement to 2.2L engine. (but then it won't have a bore/stroke of 86/86 - not sure if that's a problem for marketing)
2: Better flowing header/exhaust. (eliminate torque curve)
3: Better tires.

I think a 40hp/30tq increase while still meeting CA emissions and CAFE restrictions would be enough to quiet the vast majority of dissent and reinvigorate enthusiasm.

The problem I see, however, is that Toyota would unlikely be able to sell it for <28k and once you're in the 30k+ range - there's a lot of other really fun (and turbo) cars.

It is the only platform that I have ever heard of where technical information was sent out to the aftermarket before the car was even released. That is pretty much unheard of. It was no secret that they wanted aftermarket to take on the higher performance mods.


I doubt a 40HP increase would satisfy many much less a majority. It would just up the number of what the car "needs" to the throngs that just read specs and have never even sat in one much less drove it. Hell I doubt it will even satisfy many of the more power crowd here since the jump off point for the "least" they want seems to be the rather random 300HP.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

2JayZ is always the answer!


Another idea is that if Subaru doesn't want the car anymore, Toyota could re-release it with one of their 2.5L inline engines like a tweaked variation of the 5AR-FE which has D4-S. They could probably do something like 200hp/185Tq on 87 octane - then let the owner add 20+ on 91 with a tune.

In fact, one thing I would like is a FRS that didn't require premium fuel - TBH that would really appeal to me!

Toyota's new 2.5L dynamic force engine in the new Camry and Rav4 fits that bill.
203hp/185 lb/ft,

Just give it to Yamaha and let them run wild on it and see what they can do lol.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

2JayZ is always the answer!


Another idea is that if Subaru doesn't want the car anymore, Toyota could re-release it with one of their 2.5L inline engines like a tweaked variation of the 5AR-FE which has D4-S. They could probably do something like 200hp/185Tq on 87 octane - then let the owner add 20+ on 91 with a tune.

In fact, one thing I would like is a FRS that didn't require premium fuel - TBH that would really appeal to me!

Retooling a Toyota line, removing something more popular from production (even in the limited numbers it would be), totally redesigning the car to take another engine and going through all the various market testing and certification requirements from scratch would result in a very expensive model. There were reasons they wanted Subaru involved in the first place and those reasons don't just go away.

[bkharmony]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

I think the turbo needs to stay off the table

Totally agree.

2: Better flowing header/exhaust. (eliminate torque curve)
3: Better tires.

It just doesn't make sense to me that these two haven't been implemented yet. I mean, these seem simpler than the head and intake redesign from last year. How much could this add to the final cost? $200? $400? I'll take it.

I get that the Primacy tires are on it because they're long-lasting, all-around tires with low friction that enable a bit of tail end slide, but aren't we past that fun marketing gimmick at this point? I mean, the BRZ suspension retune last year went a ways toward downplaying the tail-end slide. Why not just put proper tires on it out the door?

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by bkharmony

Totally agree.



It just doesn't make sense to me that these two haven't been implemented yet. I mean, these seem simpler than the head and intake redesign from last year. How much could this add to the final cost? $200? $400? I'll take it.

I get that the Primacy tires are on it because they're long-lasting, all-around tires with low friction that enable a bit of tail end slide, but aren't we past that fun marketing gimmick at this point? I mean, the BRZ suspension retune last year went a ways toward downplaying the tail-end slide. Why not just put proper tires on it out the door?

IM guessing its just that Toyota just has easy access/contract with Michelin for Primacy's.
Im pretty sure they're the standard tire on many of the 'sport' trim Toyotas.

[yurikaze]

Originally Posted by bkharmony

Totally agree.



It just doesn't make sense to me that these two haven't been implemented yet. I mean, these seem simpler than the head and intake redesign from last year. How much could this add to the final cost? $200? $400? I'll take it.

I get that the Primacy tires are on it because they're long-lasting, all-around tires with low friction that enable a bit of tail end slide, but aren't we past that fun marketing gimmick at this point? I mean, the BRZ suspension retune last year went a ways toward downplaying the tail-end slide. Why not just put proper tires on it out the door?

The tires have been addressed already. If you want the grippier but less fun tires, you can have them. My car came with Michelin Pilot Sport 4's, and yes, I know it's a limited edition, but the TRD 86 makes up a huge chunk of the 2019 86 production run, and offers the same option. Yes you have to pay, but that's no different from many other companies who have a tire upgrade linked to a performance package.