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Old 11-23-2018, 08:15 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by rice_classic View Post
I'm confident that driver was simply not comfortable in the conditions. A Hoosier H20 in the rain would feel almost like a RE71R in the dry.
Neither of these drivers lacks experience in the rain and neither was *****-footing around. I do have to think it is likely that their tires were not at 100%, but they were getting around better than the vast majority.

Anyway, at the very least I'd put RE71R head and shoulders above any other street tire for grip at the track in the rain.

RE71R in the dry is of course going to have tons more grip than H2O in the pouring rain...

Last edited by ZDan; 11-23-2018 at 08:34 AM.
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Old 11-23-2018, 02:50 PM   #16
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Neither of these drivers lacks experience in the rain and neither was *****-footing around. I do have to think it is likely that their tires were not at 100%, but they were getting around better than the vast majority.

Anyway, at the very least I'd put RE71R head and shoulders above any other street tire for grip at the track in the rain.

RE71R in the dry is of course going to have tons more grip than H2O in the pouring rain...
Hyperbole to make a point, but the point still stands.

To your and Totemo's point - Hoosier's tend to age as well as cottage cheese.
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Old 11-23-2018, 07:25 PM   #17
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I just found this in the COMSSC forums regarding a proposal to add 2 points to the RE71R for 2019:
in the deep wet at Watkins Glen, it was outperforming Hoosier Wets in portions of the track with deep standing water.
Hey, that was me :P

https://www.comscc.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5822
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Old 11-24-2018, 01:32 AM   #18
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I just found this in the COMSSC forums regarding a proposal to add 2 points to the RE71R for 2019:
in the deep wet at Watkins Glen, it was outperforming Hoosier Wets in portions of the track with deep standing water.
Hey, that was me :P

https://www.comscc.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5822
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

The fact of the matter is that you were "doing it better" than he was. If you came in during that session and swapped to new H20s you would have gone faster and not in an insignificant way.
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Old 11-24-2018, 10:25 AM   #19
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I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
HA! No thanks...

If you have any information or data on the wet performance of these tires, feel free to share it.

I'll share what I have, which is of course anecdotal, but it's something...

At Watkins Glen, conditions on day 1 were inundated with standing water at several spots. T50 Miata was the fastest other car I came across in practice, I was gathering him up at about 0.5 second per lap when we both came in. He remarked his semi-amazement that I was doing it on RE71Rs vs. his H2Os. I was doing ~2:35 lap times in those conditions.
Next day in the dry time trial I did a 2:18.6 on the same RE71Rs vs. his 2:17.4 on Hoosier R7s.
T50 Miata power/weight ~16.5 lb/hp
T40 BRZ power/weight ~14:1 lb/hp

Quote:
The fact of the matter is that you were "doing it better" than he was. If you came in during that session and swapped to new H20s you would have gone faster and not in an insignificant way.
Faster maybe, but I don't know about "significantly"...
T50 Miata pilot is regarded by most, including myself, as the best driver in the club by some margin. I have been out with him before (in the dry in his old E36 M3) at WGI to figure out how he was going so damn fast and to get some ideas, basically he just hits the same marks at the absolute limit every single lap and doesn't screw up, ever. Whereas my laps are random and chaotic, no two alike, all leaving something on the table somewhere and going too far over the limit elsewhere.

My impression of my stockish BRZ on RE71Rs in wet with standing water is that after you lose grip you can just hang on for a bit and it will eventually come back without spitting you off the track. When the back comes out, the car doesn't just swap ends, you can hang it out for a while and it will come back.

His setup is no doubt stiffer and probably more oversteery, and also the Miata has a more rearward c.g. on a shorter wheelbase so probably not as forgiving in standing water conditions.

In the end I think I had a car advantage for the inundated/standing water conditions. While I don't necessarily think I had an inherent *tire* advantage, neither do I think I had much if any of a tire *disadvantage*, for those conditions.

My 0.02!
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Old 11-25-2018, 01:03 PM   #20
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Like I said, I can't understand it for you.

If you're going to suggest that a 200tw street tire is going to out-perform a Hoosier H20, especially in the heavy rain, then the burden of proof is on you to defend such ridiculousness.

And ridiculous it is.
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Old 11-25-2018, 02:23 PM   #21
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Like I said, I can't understand it for you.
Again, no thanks on that anyway :P

Quote:
If you're going to suggest that a 200tw street tire is going to out-perform a Hoosier H20, especially in the heavy rain, then the burden of proof is on you to defend such ridiculousness.
I never expected to be running with faster, better-driven cars on H2Os in the pouring rain with me on RE71Rs, but then it happened...

I'm not saying that this means RE71Rs are better or faster in the rain all else equal, but I will say that whatever gap there is seems to me to be a LOT smaller than I would have expected, based on my on-track experiences in the rain this year.

H2O may well be significanly faster in most if not all wet conditions, all else equal, but you declaring it as a fact without any evidence (even anecdotal) doesn't mean much to me...

*Anyway*, at the very least I highly recommend RE71R for wet track work in the 200TW street tire category...
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Old 12-31-2018, 09:15 PM   #22
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PS4S. Hands down
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Old 03-18-2019, 01:10 AM   #23
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I second the Michelin PS4S for the 200tw; also, run it in 215/45/17 size.

The ultimate answer depends on the depth of the water and the temperature. There is a reason some professional race series have more than one type of rain tire available. Also, suspension setup may play a key role here. Professional racers may change the suspension settings significantly for a wet race. A near stock suspension setup may do quite well in heavy rain. Tread depth plays a BIG factor in really heavy rain. Hoosier H20 starts with 8/32" tread, and if worn will be at a disadvantage when it gets really wet. The Hoosier H20 may also not be very sticky in really cold rain (I don't know the details of the compound). These factors may be why a Bridgestone RE71R could be quicker than a Hoosier H20 on a particular day.

For newer track drivers (or ones on a budget) your daily driver tire is a good option for really wet weather. I ran the stock Michelin Primacy HP tires on stock wheels in real heavy, cold rain at the track and was one of the fastest cars on the track (only a few even went on the track). I easily passed a Chump car that had been passing me all day – I was glad to see when I got back into the pits that the team had drilled significant holes in the floor of that car since the windshield was its only glass. Overheating the tires was not a problem and the tread depth and narrow width was to my advantage. I plan to go back to the track this spring, with my BF Goodrich G-Force Rival for the dry and damp track and my daily Yokohama Advan Sport V105 for really wet conditions. The Rivals are old and probably not too sticky any more from lack of use, but inexpensive as I already own them and they have significant tread left. The Yoko's may be replaced with some Michelin PS4S's before I go as the Yoko's are near the end of their life.
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Old 03-18-2019, 10:17 AM   #24
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According to Mr. Hollis, either the Michelin PS4S or the Contiental ExtremeContactSport. Article:
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/ar...laren-mp4-12c/

Video:
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuxkXbDGkS8[/ame]

Although there is no direct comparison, he recommended these over the RE-71R's. That seems to make sense since both of these tires have more circumferential groves (4 on each tire) than the RE71's (only 2) which allows more water evacuation.

I personally haven't tested either, but I'm thinking about picking up a set of the conti's for wet track duty.

I will say, if the track is only damp/wet with no standing puddles and you're in a drying condition, that the RE71's will probably be a lot faster just due to their compound. But for a truly wet track, I'll take the extra groves for water evacuation.
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Old 03-18-2019, 10:47 AM   #25
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Also, suspension setup may play a key role here. Professional racers may change the suspension settings significantly for a wet race.
Pro teams will change suspension settings significantly for a wet race. They may change the total lateral load transfer distribution by quite a bit, in addition to just softening the car.

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