Inside Line - BRZ Full Test Review

[Deslock]

I agree dsgerbc and switchlanez... I even mentioned the possible autox issue in another thread this morning that touched on 2nd gear being short (but no one else there has talked autox):

Originally Posted by Deslock

Not everyone in America cares only about numbers, and had Toyota/Subaru made the gearing a little taller just to improve 0-60 mag times (a standard, but arbitrary metric anyway), they would've been accused of placating bench racers.

A tangible concern is that its short gearing will be disadvantageous for competitive autox... though having to shift also means autox might be more fun/interesting, which (not to beat a dead horse) is the point.

[armythug]

Originally Posted by Scion FR-S

Yes, these numbers should go a long way to shutting up the endless "not enough performance to be a true sports car" whining...

Whining or opinion mate?

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by armythug

Whining or opinion mate?

Definitely whining.

[brianbot5000]

Like every other car out there, this car ain't perfect. Arguing whether it is or isn't is pointless.

I will say though, if this car had 300 HP, it would probably ruin the car - the engine would begin to overpower the chassis. 250-260 may be the sweet spot, but they need to allow for one or two power bumps to sell more cars. But waiting for that is like holding off on buying a cell phone, waiting for the next one because it will be more powerful - if you do that, you'll never buy one because the next will alway be better and right around the corner.

[S2kphile]

Originally Posted by brianbot5000

Like every other car out there, this car ain't perfect. Arguing whether it is or isn't is pointless.

I will say though, if this car had 300 HP, it would probably ruin the car - the engine would begin to overpower the chassis. 250-260 may be the sweet spot, but they need to allow for one or two power bumps to sell more cars. But waiting for that is like holding off on buying a cell phone, waiting for the next one because it will be more powerful - if you do that, you'll never buy one because the next will alway be better and right around the corner.

[fistpoint]

Originally Posted by Scion FR-S

Skidpad on Prius tires: .92G. Incredible, better than Mustang GT, 2013 GC. And the tires appear to wear very well. A 0-60 of 7.3 blows chunks but that is with a 2-3 upshift at 59.

Those are grandma testers...one of the others scored 6.5 which IMO is still on the high end. Car mags always have big discrepancies in performance times.

[JohnnyR]

Originally Posted by 86fanatic

It might surprised you but some people on this forum can easily afford a GT500 or GTR but don't see the point in owning those cars. A 2013 GT500 will hit 60MPH in 1st gear. A GTR goes 3 seconds to 60, only when no one is in front of you and hopefully no one is beside you either. If you are pushing the car that hard on public streets you are being a danger to the people around you, plain and simple.

Those cars are just ridiculously over powered for real world driving. Not to mention they both weigh 1000 pounds more. It doesn't matter how much fancy drive train components you put on those cars, it is very hard to have a connected feeling driving a car which weighs almost 4000 pounds.

Besides that, how do you feel driving you 4000 pound boat 60 MPH or less in rush hour driving, knowing you are quickly wearing out your tires, brakes, and everything else at an alarming rate. It's a little bit silly isn't it being stuck in a machine that is engineered to go 200 MPH chugging along with every other "0-60 in 8 second car". It's simply a waste of the engineering that went into the car to use them as daily drivers.

Many of us interested in the 86 are coming from much faster cars. For me the whole "press the gas, go really fast" concept is both boring and at a point with modern cars where things are just over the top and actually a detraction from the fun factor of driving on public roads. I don't go to the track, I don't care about being competitive on the drag strip or auto cross.

I just want a car that is fun to drive, makes me feel connected, and is not a ridiculously over engineered exercise in excess designed solely to have internet bragging rights about 0-60 times, Nurburgring lap times, 1/4 mile times, and the rest. I really don't care about any of those things, it has nothing to do with my daily commute and enjoyment of my car.

Just because the BRZ/FRS is smaller and lighter doesn't mean they're any less dangerous and they're being pushed, so null.

More weight and finer line of loss of traction is fun in it's own right.

I would hate driving my "boat" in traffic just like I hated driving my underpowered light-weight care.

If you're not pushing a car to it's limits to have fun in normal driving on normal roads, those other cars are just as fun.

Sub 3-sec 0-60 isn't all for bragging rights, it's fun, and the power feels good at all times in normal driving as well.

I'm just pointing out that people seem to think that those other cars are not just as fun, and it's wrong. I assure you I would at least have just as much fun in my heavy overpowered number generating Evo as I would a 86, if not more enjoyment due to it's additional power. Some people just can't grasp that people want power other than for bragging rights. Some of us are let down because we wanted the power for everyday driving and events. Despite this forum's myth, more power doesn't mean less fun and overweight.

[Longhorn248]

Originally Posted by brianbot5000

Like every other car out there, this car ain't perfect. Arguing whether it is or isn't is pointless.

I will say though, if this car had 300 HP, it would probably ruin the car - the engine would begin to overpower the chassis. 250-260 may be the sweet spot, but they need to allow for one or two power bumps to sell more cars. But waiting for that is like holding off on buying a cell phone, waiting for the next one because it will be more powerful - if you do that, you'll never buy one because the next will alway be better and right around the corner.

My sentiments exactly. If a couple of aftermarket mods can get the car in the 230-240 range without having to go FI then I'll be more than happy.

[brzmaybe]

Intense DVDA, I took your hint and checked a little bit of Insideline 0-60 mph test history. In 2005 they clocked the MX 5 at 7.5 secs when the rest of the industry was clocking the car at around 7.0 seconds; Car and Driver managed 6.5 seconds.

So maybe the most conservative 0-60 time for a BRZ is 7.3 secs, the upcoming review consensus number might be 6.8 secs, and.... Car and Driver might post a 6.5 sec time. time will tell...

[uspspro]

Originally Posted by brzmaybe

Intense DVDA, I took your hint and checked a little bit of Insideline 0-60 mph test history. In 2005 they clocked the MX 5 at 7.5 secs when the rest of the industry was clocking the car at around 7.0 seconds; Car and Driver managed 6.5 seconds.

So maybe the most conservative 0-60 time for a BRZ is 7.3 secs, the upcoming review consensus number might be 6.8 secs, and.... Car and Driver might post a 6.5 sec time. time will tell...

Motor Trend already clocked a 6.4s 0-60 and a 14.9 1/4 mile @ 95.5mph

:happy0180:

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

Gotcha. I think you will like the BRZ based on your comments in the past. I think the money saved would be worth it (either put into the car, save for a rainy day, take a nice vacation...etc). Plus tires will be cheaper on the BRZ. .

I understand your past history with the Camaro. So you will have to take that into account. But I would rather have the view closer to a F22 than a Cessna.

By the way, I went this weekend and found a comparitively priced Camaro (actually MSRP is less than a similar FR-S) and did a test drive. General comments about it are here if interested.

[pastuch]

Originally Posted by JohnnyR

Just because the BRZ/FRS is smaller and lighter doesn't mean they're any less dangerous and they're being pushed, so null.

More weight and finer line of loss of traction is fun in it's own right.

I would hate driving my "boat" in traffic just like I hated driving my underpowered light-weight care.

If you're not pushing a car to it's limits to have fun in normal driving on normal roads, those other cars are just as fun.

Sub 3-sec 0-60 isn't all for bragging rights, it's fun, and the power feels good at all times in normal driving as well.

I'm just pointing out that people seem to think that those other cars are not just as fun, and it's wrong. I assure you I would at least have just as much fun in my heavy overpowered number generating Evo as I would a 86, if not more enjoyment due to it's additional power. Some people just can't grasp that people want power other than for bragging rights. Some of us are let down because we wanted the power for everyday driving and events. Despite this forum's myth, more power doesn't mean less fun and overweight.

I found the BMW 335I, Mustang GT and pretty much every other RWD coupe on the market boring to drive. Yes, they are fast but they don't feel that way. My NA Miata takes almost 9 seconds to 60 and is five times more involving to drive than any Mustang I've ever tried. Not to mention the complete lack of steering feel in the Mustang.

Go-kart-theory: You FEEL like your going fast but you're not even coming close to 60mph.

[S2kphile]

Originally Posted by pastuch

Go-kart-theory: You FEEL like your going fast but you're not even coming close to 60mph.

Perfect example: BMW M3 E30 or S2000. Lightweight, adequate power, precision focused driving feel, balanced handling, fun to drive. All adjectives define FRS/BRZ, IMHO.

[IntenseDVDA]

Originally Posted by brzmaybe

Intense DVDA, I took your hint and checked a little bit of Insideline 0-60 mph test history. In 2005 they clocked the MX 5 at 7.5 secs when the rest of the industry was clocking the car at around 7.0 seconds; Car and Driver managed 6.5 seconds.

So maybe the most conservative 0-60 time for a BRZ is 7.3 secs, the upcoming review consensus number might be 6.8 secs, and.... Car and Driver might post a 6.5 sec time. time will tell...

IMO, one of the best qualities of this car will be the ability to maintain speed on tight, curvy, technical roads.

Having a quick car from 0-60 is great, but to take a common theme from my motorcycle riding brethren - take an average rider on a R1 and put him/her up against a great rider on an R6 and the latter will always, always, wipe the floor with the latter.