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Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing Relating to suspension, chassis, and brakes. Sponsored by 949 Racing.


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Old 07-23-2014, 07:06 PM   #113
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The only time fixed calipers is easier to change, is if the pad being swapped in is thinner than the pad being swapped out.

Otherwise, the next-best thing is to find a thin piece of metal, and "clamp" one side of the caliper first, insert new pad, and "clamp" the other side to compress 2 pistons at a time. This is the only way to push the pistons back in without playing the "whack-a-piston" game.

Versus sliding calipers, it is NOT easier if the pad being replaced is worn thinner than new pads.

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Old 07-23-2014, 07:28 PM   #114
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sounds like ease of pad replacement is not an unanimous choice for fixed calilpers. I personally think it's easier.

For anyone who hasn't done it.. here's a quick video using Brembo's. They are the same exact process.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeXv9Knbkqw"]Tutorial: Change Front Brake Pads on 2006 Subaru WRX STi - YouTube[/ame]
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Old 07-23-2014, 10:00 PM   #115
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so what vendor wants to package all of this together and sell it lol
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Old 07-23-2014, 10:20 PM   #116
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so what vendor wants to package all of this together and sell it lol
I hope I get a cut

If any one vendor could do it would be KNS brakes. There are mulitple sources for the calipers, rotors, pads and lines. I outlined my choices based on price, service, etc.. But anyone could come up with those parts. The one part that makes it all possible is the bracket by KNS. So any vendor who wanted to do a package would have to buy the brackets from KNS. Or I suppose they could do the R&D and make their own. (or in this day and age, just send a set to China..)
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Old 07-23-2014, 10:24 PM   #117
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I've written my second installment on this build.

Part 1 talked about what parts to buy and how to assemble what you need.

Part 2 is a discussion on the first 4 pages of this thread, highlighting the topics of debate such as cooling, weight savings, fixed vs. sliding calipers, and especially brake bias. I wanted to share some basic knowledge of braking systems and then discuss how this upgrade compares with stock. I tried my best to include some of the more technical details that @JRitt and others have shared and yet try to keep things simple enough for everyone to understand. In the end I give my opinion on how good this upgrade is and who it would benefit.

http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/300...rz-part-2.html


Btw.. I just published it. I'll sleep on it and then go back and re-read and try to edit for grammar and typos, etc.. So if anyone catches anything, please let me know. Especially if I gave bad technical information!!!

Thanks everyone!
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Old 07-24-2014, 10:52 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by eikond View Post
I've written my second installment on this build.

Part 1 talked about what parts to buy and how to assemble what you need.

Part 2 is a discussion on the first 4 pages of this thread, highlighting the topics of debate such as cooling, weight savings, fixed vs. sliding calipers, and especially brake bias. I wanted to share some basic knowledge of braking systems and then discuss how this upgrade compares with stock. I tried my best to include some of the more technical details that @JRitt and others have shared and yet try to keep things simple enough for everyone to understand. In the end I give my opinion on how good this upgrade is and who it would benefit.

http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/300...rz-part-2.html


Btw.. I just published it. I'll sleep on it and then go back and re-read and try to edit for grammar and typos, etc.. So if anyone catches anything, please let me know. Especially if I gave bad technical information!!!

Thanks everyone!


Good write up.


For the pad height, just go measure the max friction height of the friction pad (not the backing plate, just the friction material). The BRZ pads up front are bigger so it'll change your numbers a bit. Not sure on the rears. Actually there is probably very little reason (outside of matching calipers) to even touch the rears. You won't get much feel improvement (ie I highly doubt that ANYONE here would even notice it) and the wear rate is already negligible in the back with the OEM stuff. Weight savings and consumables (pads only in this case) would be potential reasons but that will be a lot less in the back I'd guess than up front.
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Old 07-24-2014, 03:28 PM   #119
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Good write up.


For the pad height, just go measure the max friction height of the friction pad (not the backing plate, just the friction material). The BRZ pads up front are bigger so it'll change your numbers a bit. Not sure on the rears. Actually there is probably very little reason (outside of matching calipers) to even touch the rears. You won't get much feel improvement (ie I highly doubt that ANYONE here would even notice it) and the wear rate is already negligible in the back with the OEM stuff. Weight savings and consumables (pads only in this case) would be potential reasons but that will be a lot less in the back I'd guess than up front.
The pad height difference is pretty negligible to bias impact.

You are right about the rear swap.. It's basically no impact to performance. The Z calipers have the same pistons sizes so no change in performance. The feel from a fixed caliper is much less impactful on rear brakes. The disc is the same, the pad size might be slightly different, but not noticeable. You do go from 5.8lbs per caliper to 3.2lbs.. so 2.6lbs per side or 5 lbs overall... which is basically not noticeable.

I'm going to do the rear swap just to complete the package and complete the write up. Cosmetics are nice too.. so that doesn't hurt. Plus I already have the calipers. So yeah.. to be honest, I'm doing the rears for cosmetics.
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Old 07-24-2014, 04:15 PM   #120
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The pad height difference is pretty negligible to bias impact.

You are right about the rear swap.. It's basically no impact to performance. The Z calipers have the same pistons sizes so no change in performance. The feel from a fixed caliper is much less impactful on rear brakes. The disc is the same, the pad size might be slightly different, but not noticeable. You do go from 5.8lbs per caliper to 3.2lbs.. so 2.6lbs per side or 5 lbs overall... which is basically not noticeable.

I'm going to do the rear swap just to complete the package and complete the write up. Cosmetics are nice too.. so that doesn't hurt. Plus I already have the calipers. So yeah.. to be honest, I'm doing the rears for cosmetics.


I did say a bit, not change them a lot
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Old 07-30-2014, 02:28 PM   #121
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I think I read somewhere that the Mitsubishi Evo Brembos also will fit onto the 240, as well as the 350Z brakes, and a couple other cars as well (Q45?).
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Old 07-30-2014, 02:38 PM   #122
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This is an awesome find
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Old 08-21-2014, 01:03 PM   #123
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I've been driving on these for about a month now.. They are great! I'm very happy with the modulation, feel, etc.. I have only had a few instances where I've had to brake hard and I've worried about the car behind me rear-ending me rather than me hitting the car in front.. i guess that's a good sign.

The one thing about this whole package that has been bothering me is the weight of the upgraded Leg GT 316mm rotors. To be honest, I haven't felt the added weight myself.. but I know from a factual standpoint that the extra weight (especially un-sprung weight) is a detriment to performance.

Clearly there are lighter rotors out there.. but they are typically two piece rotors that are admittedly excellent improvements in quality and function.. but very expensive.

So I've found a compromise.
http://www.racingbrake.com/LEGACY-2-...p/9013-381.htm

RacingBrake makes these lightweight 1 piece rotors for the Leg GT. They are the proper OEM dimensions, but save a lot of weight.. These are just 17.2 lbs each.. which is I think only .1lbs heavier than the stock OEM BRZ parts. They are $300 for a pair.

So, removing the $100 for the pair of OEM blanks and adding $300 for the RB 1 piece slotted rotors does increase my overall spend by $200. But, it cancels the weight gain from the larger rotors. In addition, these look to have more advanced cooling veins which should help to improve temps over the OEM pieces.

Anyone have experience with RacingBrake 1 piece rotors? @JRitt @Dave-ROR

I'll probably wait until next spring to pick these up.. I'll get some more use out of the OEM blanks that I have on the car now.. feels like a big waste otherwise.
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Old 08-23-2014, 10:07 PM   #124
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Nice! Will look at doing these soon
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Old 08-26-2014, 10:52 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P@ul View Post


If you really want to have fun with this, the 94 + 3000GT Twin Turbo also came with these Sumitomo calipers.

40.4x2 + 42.8x2 piston setup in the front (From: Stealth 316)
38.1x2 piston setup in the rear
Also note the pistons on the 3kgt brakes are differentially sized, so it's important to know that the orientation is correct. What I mean is the OE Sti brembo pistons are different too, and since the caliper on the FR-S is behind the axle (as opposed to leading or vice versa, don't remember, point is, it's the opposite of the Stis) then the wrong piston becomes the leading edge... I wish I could quote whoever provided the info.... It was a while ago. I think @Dave-ROR actually. I am just trying to recall all I've learned reading countless brake threads...

Quote:
Originally Posted by eikond View Post
I've been driving on these for about a month now.. They are great! I'm very happy with the modulation, feel, etc.. I have only had a few instances where I've had to brake hard and I've worried about the car behind me rear-ending me rather than me hitting the car in front.. i guess that's a good sign.

The one thing about this whole package that has been bothering me is the weight of the upgraded Leg GT 316mm rotors. To be honest, I haven't felt the added weight myself.. but I know from a factual standpoint that the extra weight (especially un-sprung weight) is a detriment to performance.

HAHAHA It's like... reverse butt dyno! True perfectionism- love it.

SKIP TO FILTER OT NONSENSE - - All this talk of rotational mass reminds me of my cycling experience... Measuring parts (EVERYTHING, like EVERY SCREW) to grams to reduce weight. Way more important when 400g is 5% of the total weight.... buttttt.... Our generally excepted totally uneducated not claiming right formula, is rotational weight is worth roughly double that of static. The entire bike can be essentially considered unsprung, even with suspension components, and weight carried on your body is your static. Which is why it is better to have 144oz camelback than a freaking gallon of water strapped to your bike! It is a HUGE difference. Also, in regards to rotors, I remember specifically same caliper and pads, (hydraulic disc brakes also lol...) going to 8" rotors from 6", was noticeable. Stopped better, more torque, also resulted in heating up pads faster, but the rotors cooled faster, and since it was not enclosed, the exterior portion of the rotors cooling surface, is also moving faster, which, on a bike now going 4mph uphill is a huge deal. Doubt it makes a difference on a car. SOOOO OT. Sorry guys... Still. Admire the, "I know it almost doesn't matter, but I don't want to add weight. I want to add lightness."

Anyone have experience with RacingBrake 1 piece rotors? @JRitt @Dave-ROR

Can't speak for any other products, from personal experience, or for their newer stuff- don't want to bad mouth, just check into it before spending $, which you're doing obviously. But check the vw forums... There are horror stories of their BBK calipers failing. The crossover simply breaking free from the caliper. Complete loss of brakes. Warranty denied. Biggest issue that everyone agreed on was crappy customer service. Perhaps not?

What about a DBA 4000 series for the LGT? Don't they have better cooling vanes? Since we have essentially determined the weight while increased, is very much negligible, (other than in your mind KNOWING it's there :P) but cooling should be better, why not just improve the good qualities you have- since removing mass from the rotor *COULD* remove cooling potential- or maybe offset by better vaning? God knows. My head hurts from this read, but thanks everyone for all the info.

More OT Crap here - - - I should also note- I'm extremely proud of myself for my calculations on my own being determined as what was right. Totally patting myself on the back, you can all hate me for it. re-reading, trying to help my buddy with his celica GT-S not have to pay for a freaking TRD bbk. *SIGH* Told him tires. Auto-x, determine next issue. Hoping to find a vented rear OE brake for it, and then use Avensis front brakes. Same piston, larger pad, larger rotor, so need to balance it out in the back. his back brakes look like my 94 Miatas... Pathetic. Then again, my 94M will stop dam good for what it is. Not... a ton of times. but once or twice :P OH yeah, *facepalm* brakes don't stop car brakes don't stop car *repeating in head*



Not a waste of time, you made this amazing thread.

You guys freaking rock. I love this forum, so much less ... abusive? than others, and I always learn something... and hopefully don't dump it later. Thanks for putting this together OP! Following closely, and if for NOTHING ELSE than cosmetics, this could be worth it to me if it doesn't make the brakes worse, I do drive hard? Spiritidly? (I've definitely cooked the stock pads before...) but when brake upgrade time comes around, might do this instead of the pads/rotors/lines with stock brakes, and just tack on a bit more, and do calipers as well.

Last edited by zohare; 08-26-2014 at 10:59 PM. Reason: PUI... Don't drink and post
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Old 10-20-2014, 02:48 PM   #126
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so if you have the subaru 4pot swap, would running the Legacy GT front rotors help correct the brake bias?

Since the calipers are similar(Z32 vs wrx 4pot)
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