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Old 03-31-2015, 02:17 PM   #393
TylerLieberman
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Originally Posted by BTXP.XD View Post
just curious you still running that spoiler? It looks rlly good imo
No; long gone.


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Originally Posted by Kelbyat07 View Post
Nice mods man. Not sure if you already mentioned this but why did you trade in your wrx?
I missed having a lightweight, RWD coupe to go play with. My old 240 was a lot of fun and I wanted to go and have one last car to build up to drift and play with. It was fun, but priorities and interests have slowly become a bit different than what they were a couple years ago, so it's time to move on.

In addition, I'm working on a post right now that has all of the information relating to setting this car up for drifting. This includes everything from alignment specs, to suspension parts, to wheel sizes, and so on. It should be a pretty good guide for anybody that's interested in buying one of these cars to drift, or for somebody who already has one and is wanting to drift it.

Should be up by the end of the week
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Old 05-11-2015, 04:10 PM   #394
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Okay, so I’ve been getting a bunch of questions regarding drift setups and events, so I decided to make this post is to help consolidate all the information I have learned over the past couple years into one. This post is aimed towards people who are interested in setting up their FRS/BRZ for drifting. Keep in mind that while a lot of this is coming from years of personal experience drifting and a few years driving this car, some of the specifics in the setup will ultimately be up to user preference. With that in mind, it’s not essential to follow everything that I state to the letter; it actually probably wouldn’t benefit most people very well. Instead, consider it a guide to help you determine on how to make your choices or how to continue modifying your car to set it up properly and to your driving style.

This will also be a pretty thorough post, so it will be long, but it covers just about everything that I’ve gathered over the past 3 years specifically with this car, and over the past 10+ years from general, first-hand experience drifting.


Suspension:
This is where everybody should be starting at. Adding an extra 100+ hp is not the answer to making the car an awesome drift car. The footwork is what will make or break the car and the way it feels when you drive it.

This section will almost surely be up for debate between brand loyalty and various other factors, but I’ll give my input while trying to remain as unbiased as possible. For drifting, you will want a coilover system that utilize front camber plates. The front camber plates will be very beneficial when trying to dial in specific alignment specs in the front end. For coilovers, you can spend as much as you want, though you don’t need anything super fancy. I personally, use STANCE coilovers with special spring rates from Swift (more on that later). I had no complaints while using STANCE products; their product held up well after loads of abuse (15k miles with two cross country road trips and 10 drift days) and the customer service is always top notch (purchased from tf-works.com). If you would like to use something else, for around the same price, BC Racing, Fortune Auto, Megan, and various others are available. Do your research and determine what is best for you.

In addition to coilovers, you will also want rear lower control arms (RLCAs). I would STRONGLY recommend using a product that lowers the coilover mounting point, as the rear shock travel is already extremely limited from the get go. STANCE also makes a great lower control arm that lowers the mounting point by 20mm. There are additional arms that offer the same as well, like Parts Shop Max and various others, but you’d have to look further into which you would like to use. The lower mounting points are not necessary, but encouraged. If you don’t wish to use those, there are also other companies that offer more simple solutions: Cusco, Megan, Whiteline, SPC etc. Again, research and determine what is best for you. Beyond coilovers and LCAs, you don’t really need anything else. The OEM toe links should offer enough toe adjustment to achieve the desired alignment in the rear. If not, you’ll need aftermarket toe links or bushings. Sway bars are also preference and are not considered to be in need of upgrade. You might actually choose not to based on your setup for the car (more on that later).

For alignment settings, some people believe that you want to run a bunch of negative camber to help induce oversteer and make the car easier to drift. This IS NOT the case. In fact, running lower amounts of rear camber is beneficial because it will make the rear end feel more planted, and it will allow more even tire wear, meaning your money goes further. This doesn’t meant that you need 0* camber in the rear. This actually isn’t very good, because it will cause positive camber wear on these cars, unless you’re running very soft rear spring rates that allow a good amount of squat (Professional/Forumla D drivers do this). The sweet zone for this car is around -1.5* camber on the rear. This actually equates to pretty equal tire wear and will allow you to use all of the tire, rather than just a portion of it. If you feel as though the rear end is too planted, and too difficult to spin, make your changes elsewhere (damping, sway-bar settings, tire pressure, etc.). All of those can help loosen up the rear end without causing the car to eat through tires faster due to camber.

In the front end, having camber is beneficial. The reason being is because of the way your wheels rotate while going from lock to lock. If you are running 0* camber up front and you’re drifting around a right hand corner, your wheels are countered, pointing to the left. As you turn, your leading edge wheel (outside, where the weight of the car is being pushed) gains positive camber, while your trailing edge wheel (inside, where the weight is being lifted) gains negative camber. You want your leading edge wheel to have minimal camber, because that is where the weight is while drifting, and that allows more of that tire to be in contact with the ground. Running somewhere between -3* and -5* camber is common and I would recommend finding a setting that feels best to you in that range.

Toe comes down to user preference, just like every aspect of suspension settings. It’s important to note what each will do though. Toe-in up front will decrease the level of turn in, while toe-out will increase the level of turn in. Most people tend to run 0 or slight toe-out up front. The rear settings play a critical role, as it can make the car very twitchy, or very stable. Having toe-in on the rear will cause the car to feel more stable in the rear end, and will actually not be so enthusiastic about holding bigger angle or wider lines when drifting. This might suit some people better given the rest of their setup, or how they drive their cars. Toe-out on the rear will cause the car to hold drift easier, and will actually help in widening the arc of your drift, meaning drifting long sweepers at higher speed without gripping up is more easily done, however it can make the car very twitchy as well, and can cause the car to be more difficult in transitions. I personally choose to run 0* toe on the rear and very slight toe-out up front. Everybody is different though, so it’s important to see what works best for you and the way you drive your car.

Caster is another aspect of your alignment but I’m not going to dig into that much. Most people drifting their FRS/BRZ on this forum are using the stock FLCAs and stock caster settings. Realistically, having a bit of increased caster is a good thing, but I wouldn’t say it’s necessary.


Power/Engine Modifications:
So, first thing that most might consider is the necessity to bring more power out of the car. The FA20 is only going to put down around 160hp at the wheels or so (depending on fuel and a variety of factors), and even less torque. To boot, there’s a huge dip right in the middle of the RPM range which limits torque even more. I will start by saying that more power IS NOT a necessity whatsoever. I did my first event with the car on nothing more than a muffler delete and coilovers, and the car did just fine. Entry speeds were running just south of 100mph initiating in 4thgear. The car was able to maintain drift, although you had to keep the throttle pinned and downshift to 3rdpart way through. While I say that a power increase is not needed, you would still benefit from a few changes to the engine. First and foremost is some sort of tune. I recommend this strongly WITH OR WITHOUT any additional aftermarket parts. The OFT (openflashtablet.com) is a fantastic option due to the price and how easy it is to use.

The biggest reason for this is because of the rev limiter. While you’re drifting, you might hit the rev limiter a bit here or there. This shouldn’t be a common occurrence, but it does happen. Without any sort of aftermarket tuning solution, the rev limiter is very harsh and will cut the power long enough for you to fall out of the power band and lose drift. Tuning solutions like the OFT implement a “soft rev limiter”, which allows you basically hold the throttle right at that limiter, without the harsh cut. This can be useful in corners where you’re maxed out in 2ndgear, but you don’t quite have the power or momentum to up-shift into 3rd.

In addition to the OFT, you may find yourself wanting more power. That is perfectly okay, but before spending thousands on something, it’s important to think carefully about what you intend to do with the car. If the car is your daily driver, or if you’re wanting a more simplistic setup, I highly encourage you to stay N/A. Forced induction is definitely a popular option, but in all reality, a properly setup 200whp car will offer all you need for most tracks that the average person will be drifting on. If you intend to go further into the league of Pro-Am, or even Professional drifting, then Forced Induction, or even an engine swap might be a good option for you. However, I have not personally worked with FI setups or swaps on this car, so instead I’m going to focus on N/A platforms in this post.

A header paired with a tune is the absolute best way to ring out extra power and torque from the FA20 engine in the N/A category. The stock intake is efficient, but you are welcome to upgrade the filter, or swap for an entirely new intake system. An intake system will run around $300 or so compared to the drop-in filter, and gains will be marginal. This is up to you individually to determine if the extra few (and I do mean few) hp is worth the extra $200 over a simple drop-in filter. Also, keep in mind that a new intake will almost surely require MAF re scaling in the tune to keep from AFRs to get out of tolerance. As far as the header goes, you have the option between EL (equal length), and UEL (equal length). IN MOST CASES, the EL header will provide better peak output, while the UEL header will provide better mid range, helping get rid of the torque dip. The UEL will also give you more of the boxer rumble. This choice is entirely up to you. While drifting, you’ll spend 95% of your time above 4,000rpms. In all reality, the UEL is probably the better choice because it offers much more mid range, but falls short to the EL header by just a few hp. Keep in mind this varies from one product to the next, so be sure to do your research. I personally went with the Tomei EL header (from tf-works.com) and couldn’t have been any happier. The fit and finish was fantastic quality, it sounded great (I favor the EL sound), and I never felt as though I needed any more mid range power.

This will probably land you somewhere around 190whp or so. Again, it will vary from car to car, but you should see and feel a noticeable difference with the parts. Additional exhaust pieces are entirely up to you. Personally, I don’t feel like they’re worth it as a full exhaust from the header back (front/over pipe, mid pipe, axle back) will run well over $1,000 and the gains seem to be marginal, while also increasing the noise and level of rasp. I found that simply using a header and a simple axle back exhaust (Nameless track pipe is a good option) is a great combo that will give a nice, smooth tone, and not break the bank. Aside from that, there really isn’t any need for any additional parts. An oil cooler would be a smart choice, as the car will be spending every run in the upper half of the RPMs the whole time, but other from that, there shouldn’t be much of a reason to need anything else.


Drivetrain:
The drivetrain honestly doesn’t really need much of any attention, so long as the rest of your setup is somewhat simple and realistic. The stock torsen diff does just fine in allowing the rear tires to spin. If you drive on a lot of banked courses, or drive a lot of courses with fast, consistent direction changes, you might find yourself wanting something with a more positive lock, like a clutch type 2-way LSD.

Switching to a clutch type differential will give a much more positive lock in the rear end, letting the tires break free and maintain drift. I don’t think that it’s necessary, but some may prefer the feeling of it over the standard torsen diff. While I agree that an aftermarket LSD is a better unit for drifting purposes, out of all my time driving mine, I never found myself on a course where I felt like I needed it, as the stock unit does just fine.


Steering angle:
This is a big point that can leave a lot of people stumped, as there are lots of various factors to determine. The biggest problem with this car and achieving more steering angle is the boxer engine. The boxer engine is very wide in dimension, and therefore, causes the frame rails to be very wide. Because of this, the amount of space available underneath the front fenders becomes very limited. Because of this, it is important to understand that everything you do between suspension setup, wheel/tire size, alignment etc. will be a compromise of one thing or another.

There are a few different ways you can increase the steering angle. The easiest and cheapest method is new inner tie rods. The inner tie rods have a rack spacer machined onto the knuckle where it meets the rack. This spaces the rod further out, allowing for more rack travel, which means more available lock. Keep in mind that this means the rack travels further, meaning there will be more turns from lock to lock. I used this setup and it added just under a quarter turn on the wheel in each direction to hit full lock. This will give a good increase of steering angle and won’t require anything special to make work.

You can also achieve more steering angle by cutting and re-welding the knuckles (spindles). Doing this shortens the arms and allows for more rotation in the spindle as you turn the wheel. This will not increase the amount of steering wheel rotation from lock to lock, meaning the wheels will turn more than original with steering input. Once you do this though, you may start to run into issues with the end links. The sway bar end links mount at the sway bar and the coilover. As the wheels turn, so does the coilover and with enough rotation, this will cause the end link to bind. You have a couple different options at this point:

1.Customize a mounting point to mount the end link to the front lower control arm, or run a control arm that has a mount for the end link attached.

2.Ditch the front sway bar and end links entirely.

I chose option two in conjunction with the tie rods. This eliminated the worry of running into sway bar end link bind. I also increased the spring rates in the front (from 6k to 8k) and went full stiff on damping in the front shocks. This allows the front suspension to carry the extra weight and help control the roll that the sway bar would normally carry/control. I highly recommend doing this if you choose to delete the front sway bar.

The last option for more steering angle is to find a complete kit that addresses all of these issues. As of right now, the only options that I know of are Parts Shop Max (around $1100 USD) and WiseFab (well over $2,000 USD). These kits address all of the issues and are very good options if you don’t wish to piece something together or try and do the R&D yourself.


Wheels/Tires:
When it comes to wheels and tires, there are a few things to keep in mind. One is that you cannot run staggered diameter wheels (17” front, 18” rear). Technically, you could if the tire sizes are right on, but because the car utilizes speed sensors, if the front diameter is sensed to be more than 3% different from the rear diameter, it will cause the car to go into a “limp”mode and will render the car useless until a different wheel/tire size is installed. While most don’t care to run 17/18 staggered setups, I bring this up because a lot of people in the drifting world with 240s and rx7s and various other cars run 17/18 setups. If you run a standalone ECU, it’s possible, but most reading this are probably not considering doing a standalone ECU.

Another factor to keep in mind is the front fender clearance. Remember the car has a boxer engine, causing the frame rails to be wide, which limits front fender space. As mentioned above with steering angle, this is a reason why something like an 18x10 may not be ideal, especially when considering adding more steering angle. Wide front fenders will help aid that issue, but it’s something to pay attention to when searching for wheels.

In all reality, 17” wheels are best. The only thing 18” wheels will do is cost more for tires, and make it harder to spin the wheels. 17s have cheaper tire prices, they’re easier to spin, and they allow you more options to choose from regarding wheel and tire size. As far as width goes, 8”-9” wide is a good zone to be in. Keep in mind, offset plays a big part here, but there’s no reason to run something like a 17x10 +20 wheel up front, when you could achieve the same fitment with a 17x9 +7 and would give you an additional inch of clearance inward, making it easier to run more steering angle.

To build off of that, tires are a big subject. Some people believe that drifting requires special tires. This is not the case, as cars use the same DOT approved tires found on street driven vehicles. The big thing to keep in mind on this car is tire size. This is for two main reasons:

1.The limited clearance means you need to be aware of what tire size you choose, as too wide or too tall can cause clearance issues, primarily up front.

2.Going too wide can lead to having too much grip, which will make the car much harder to drift, and will also cause increased stress on the driveline components, like the axles.

The stock size tires (215/45r17) actually seem to work very well for most people. Some people, including myself, choose to change to something like a 215/40r17. The shorter sidewall gives even more clearance to keep from rubbing with increased lock, when the vehicle has been lowered a good amount. The 215s are also able to spin pretty easily, whether the engine is completely stock, or the car is running a few bolt on pieces. If you’re running some sort of forced induction, you can choose to run a wider tire if you’d like, though I don’t think I’d go anything bigger than a 235/40 unless you’re putting down a considerable amount of power (over 300whp) and upgraded drivetrain components.

When it comes to the type of tire, or what compound, people seem to get stumped. Remember, the car has a low amount of hp and tq. Running tires like ZII Star Specs or RS3s on the back may not be the wisest of choices. The tires cost a good amount more, they’ll wear more quickly, and they’ll be more difficult to maintain drift due to the level of grip. As far as the front tires are considered, this comes down to personal preference. Some people like to have a good, high grip tire up front like ZIIs or AD08s, while others like the more balanced feel of running the same tire front and rear. No answer is wrong, as you might find out that you like one way more than the other.

Below is a list of tires that are popular for use with drifting. I also made note to specify which tires would be best to use just for the fronts, as they might have too much grip to run on the rear.
-Achilles ATR Sport

-Achilles ATR Sport 2

-Achilles 123S (front)

-Dunlop DZ102

-Dunlop ZII Star Spec (front)

-Federal SS595

-Federal 595 Evo

-Federal RS-R (front)

-GT Radial Champiro UHP1

-GT Radial Champiro HPY

-GT Radial Champior SX2 (front)

-Hankook RS3 (front)

-Kendai Kaiser KR20

-Nexen N3000

-Nexen N6000

-Nankang NS-1

-Nankang NS-II

-Nankang NS-20

-Nankang NS-2R (front)

-Toyo Proxes T1R

-Toyo Proxes R1R (front)

-Toyo Proxes RA1 (front)

-Yokohama S.drive

-Yokohama AD08/R (front)


Interior/Exterior:
This may seem odd to address but it goes hand in hand with a few other bits outlining the overall car setup. All of this comes to personal taste but there are a few things to consider. For the exterior, be mindful of what parts you’re using as it may cause some other items to not work properly. For instance, if you use Rocket Bunny fenders and shove 18x10 wheels up front, you may not be able to achieve full lock without rubbing unless you’ve used the LCAs to widen your front track. Even then, it may not work and good research needs to be done prior.

As far as the interior is considered, the main point is to make everything feel comfortable and natural to you: the driver. Whatever steering wheel, seat, and shift knob you use, it should be natural and should not have you fumbling to get a good grip on things. I would recommend paying close attention to certain aspects of the shifter. Shifting from 2nd to 3rd or 3rd to 2nd can be a bit hard with a sloppy shifter, or a short, stiff shifter that doesn’t have a good shift knob on it. Taller shift knobs with more leverage and things like MTEC shifter springs can help making find the right gear easier while in drift. Again, this is user preference and to be individually determined. I personally used MTEC shifter springs along with a Whiteline Transmission mount and Motul Fluid. This worked very well, even with the stock shift knob and gave me no issues finding the right gear.

The same goes from the steering wheel and seat. The seat should fit well and hold you in place, while the wheel should feel natural to hold and be at an appropriate distance away from you. If you’re a very tall person, and sit with the seat far back, you may want to look into a steering wheel setup that puts the wheel closer to your chest. Making a lot of steering corrections and input can become tiresome if your arms are stretched out reaching for the wheel. If the wheel is closer to you, it makes the task much easier. Again, this is user preference and to be individually determined.

The only thing I would strongly recommend for everybody to get is a turn spin knob, also commonly known as a drift knob. This replaces the stock button on your handbrake and allows you pull and release the hand brake without having to hold the button in. These run around $20 and is probably one of the first things you should buy when getting your car setup to drift.


Brakes:
A lot of people seem to be under the impression that you need a hydraulic handbrake setup for drifting now. Truth is, these hydraulic setups didn’t even become really popular and widely used, even on a professional level until a few years ago. For a car running wide, very sticky tires with big power, and on courses with high speeds and concrete walls, a hydro setup is definitely beneficial. In a 2700lb, 200hp car with $50 tires on the back though…. Not so much of a necessity. The fact is the stock unit is completely fine and tons of people, including myself have used the stock unit on courses with entry speeds touching 100+mph and have had no issues.

Project Mu makes rear shoes which would be a good upgrade if you felt it was absolutely necessary, but a hydraulic setup is really just a waste of money for such a basic car, and that money could be used more effectively elsewhere.


The big thing that I’ve learned from this car is that simplicity is the answer to these cars. If all you’re planning on doing is going to local events and having fun with friends and being able to drive your car to and from the event, as well as on the street, then keep it simple. N/A with headers and tune, 17” wheels, coilovers, LCAs, increased steering angle, you’re good to go. This will give you a car that’s practical, reliable, able to drift 3rd gear courses easily without running into a bunch of mechanical issues or worry about breaking things every time you go out.
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Old 05-12-2015, 01:07 PM   #395
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todoroki fenders and legsport still up for sale?...lol...if yes would u ship to canada?
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Old 05-12-2015, 10:07 PM   #396
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todoroki fenders and legsport still up for sale?...lol...if yes would u ship to canada?
Just about everything has been long sold.


All I really have left are the t3q and Toyota badges, as well as the custom t3q airbag for the OEM wheel.

I'll end up putting that stuff up for sale in the near future.
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Old 05-25-2015, 11:03 PM   #397
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It might be odd but do you have Focus St build thread?
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Old 05-26-2015, 10:50 AM   #398
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It might be odd but do you have Focus St build thread?
Nope.

The Focus ST is my wife's every day car. Though I don't have a build thread on it, I can give you a summary of our ownership experience:

-Bought car in March 2013.
-Installed Cobb AP, intake, and Turbosmart BOV November 2013.
-I deployed January 2014
-Car started having boost issues in Spring 2014.
-Boost issues were fixed within the same week.
-Parts were removed Spring 2014.
-Navigation/Touch screen unit started malfunctioning Spring 2014.
-Car was sent to dealer Spring 2014.
-Dealer said they "did an update and the system should be fine now"
-System still malfunctioned.
-Dealer updated system again.
-System started working without issues.
-Wife wanted to lower the car during Summer of 2014 while I was deployed.
-I recommended springs, or KW if she wanted coilovers.
-She said she wanted BC because of how low they go.
-I said don't touch BC because they're shit.
-She opted for BC coilovers anyways.
-The car rode fine until a couple weeks before I came home October 2014.
-I inspected the coilovers. Discovered the pillowball mounts were not properly torqued.
-Torqued to spec.
-Went on road trip to California October 2014.
-Nut on pillowball mount kept backing itself off. Clunks sounded like the front shocks were about to fall out of the car.
-Tore apart the entire front end and re assembled the coilovers in a parking garage in California.
-Car started having more boost issues while on our trip.
-After 3 trips to the dealership with piss poor customer service, the internal wastegate was deemed faulty and replaced.
-Car was fine after wastegate replacement.
-Car made it through the rest of the trip and back home without any issues.
-Coilovers were removed and sold after returning home from our trip.

The car is now 100% stock and is still used as an every day car. We'll end up trading it in for something else down the road eventually. We both love the car, but hate our experience we've had with the Ford brand and will never buy another vehicle from Ford again. I've never had such shit service from a dealership, and the lack of professionalism from the staff was just unbelievable. Needless to say, the overall experience has left a bad taste in our mouths.

Aside from that though, the car itself is really good. We just happened to get one that has had a few issues (no big deal), but it's the customer service from Ford that has pissed us off.

We'll trade to something else when she finishes her schooling in another year or two.
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Old 05-26-2015, 08:21 PM   #399
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Nope.

The Focus ST is my wife's every day car. Though I don't have a build thread on it, I can give you a summary of our ownership experience:

-Bought car in March 2013.
-Installed Cobb AP, intake, and Turbosmart BOV November 2013.
-I deployed January 2014
-Car started having boost issues in Spring 2014.
-Boost issues were fixed within the same week.
-Parts were removed Spring 2014.
-Navigation/Touch screen unit started malfunctioning Spring 2014.
-Car was sent to dealer Spring 2014.
-Dealer said they "did an update and the system should be fine now"
-System still malfunctioned.
-Dealer updated system again.
-System started working without issues.
-Wife wanted to lower the car during Summer of 2014 while I was deployed.
-I recommended springs, or KW if she wanted coilovers.
-She said she wanted BC because of how low they go.
-I said don't touch BC because they're shit.
-She opted for BC coilovers anyways.
-The car rode fine until a couple weeks before I came home October 2014.
-I inspected the coilovers. Discovered the pillowball mounts were not properly torqued.
-Torqued to spec.
-Went on road trip to California October 2014.
-Nut on pillowball mount kept backing itself off. Clunks sounded like the front shocks were about to fall out of the car.
-Tore apart the entire front end and re assembled the coilovers in a parking garage in California.
-Car started having more boost issues while on our trip.
-After 3 trips to the dealership with piss poor customer service, the internal wastegate was deemed faulty and replaced.
-Car was fine after wastegate replacement.
-Car made it through the rest of the trip and back home without any issues.
-Coilovers were removed and sold after returning home from our trip.

The car is now 100% stock and is still used as an every day car. We'll end up trading it in for something else down the road eventually. We both love the car, but hate our experience we've had with the Ford brand and will never buy another vehicle from Ford again. I've never had such shit service from a dealership, and the lack of professionalism from the staff was just unbelievable. Needless to say, the overall experience has left a bad taste in our mouths.

Aside from that though, the car itself is really good. We just happened to get one that has had a few issues (no big deal), but it's the customer service from Ford that has pissed us off.

We'll trade to something else when she finishes her schooling in another year or two.
Sorry to hear you had to go through bunch of Bull..
Thank you for your detailed explanation. It's FWD but far as handling goes can Focus come close to twins?(fun factor). You had chance to drive both. And I am sure you drove ST to it's limits. Thanks~~

I am thinking maybe I need to get out of my BRZ and get into either Fiesta or Focus ST. Did some research but I don't know what to do.. and I don't want to make a mistake by getting rid of BRZ..
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Old 05-26-2015, 09:58 PM   #400
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Sorry to hear you had to go through bunch of Bull..
Thank you for your detailed explanation. It's FWD but far as handling goes can Focus come close to twins?(fun factor). You had chance to drive both. And I am sure you drove ST to it's limits. Thanks~~

I am thinking maybe I need to get out of my BRZ and get into either Fiesta or Focus ST. Did some research but I don't know what to do.. and I don't want to make a mistake by getting rid of BRZ..
I wouldn't say that I've driven the car to its limits. I have pushed it pretty hard on some back roads before though. It's fun. Very quick turn in and precise steering. Gearbox is nice and you know what gear you're in and when you get it. Very neutral handling and very little torquesteer.

As far as "fun" goes, I liked my FRS more in the way it was modded. The FRS was better suited for what I liked in a tuned car. However, stock for stock, I prefer the Focus ST slightly in all honesty. I also largely favor the ST in terms of every day practicality and ride comfort.

Not to say the FRS/BRZ is bad, cause it isn't. I just don't really enjoy the car much in stock form as it doesn't really have anything going for it to me.

ST is a great car. If you're more concerned about ride quality, practicality, and maybe having some more straight line grunt, ST all the way. If you're more concerned about the feeling of the chassis or the platform itself, BRZ. Out of the box though, I think the ST is a much better all around car.
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Old 07-23-2015, 01:25 PM   #401
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Okay, so Iíve been getting a bunch of questions regarding drift setups and events, so I decided to make this post is to help consolidate all the information I have learned over the past couple years into one. This post is aimed towards people who are interested in setting up their FRS/BRZ for drifting. Keep in mind that while a lot of this is coming from years of personal experience drifting and a few years driving this car, some of the specifics in the setup will ultimately be up to user preference. With that in mind, itís not essential to follow everything that I state to the letter; it actually probably wouldnít benefit most people very well. Instead, consider it a guide to help you determine on how to make your choices or how to continue modifying your car to set it up properly and to your driving style.

This will also be a pretty thorough post, so it will be long, but it covers just about everything that Iíve gathered over the past 3 years specifically with this car, and over the past 10+ years from general, first-hand experience drifting.


Suspension:
This is where everybody should be starting at. Adding an extra 100+ hp is not the answer to making the car an awesome drift car. The footwork is what will make or break the car and the way it feels when you drive it.

This section will almost surely be up for debate between brand loyalty and various other factors, but Iíll give my input while trying to remain as unbiased as possible. For drifting, you will want a coilover system that utilize front camber plates. The front camber plates will be very beneficial when trying to dial in specific alignment specs in the front end. For coilovers, you can spend as much as you want, though you donít need anything super fancy. I personally, use STANCE coilovers with special spring rates from Swift (more on that later). I had no complaints while using STANCE products; their product held up well after loads of abuse (15k miles with two cross country road trips and 10 drift days) and the customer service is always top notch (purchased from tf-works.com). If you would like to use something else, for around the same price, BC Racing, Fortune Auto, Megan, and various others are available. Do your research and determine what is best for you.

In addition to coilovers, you will also want rear lower control arms (RLCAs). I would STRONGLY recommend using a product that lowers the coilover mounting point, as the rear shock travel is already extremely limited from the get go. STANCE also makes a great lower control arm that lowers the mounting point by 20mm. There are additional arms that offer the same as well, like Parts Shop Max and various others, but youíd have to look further into which you would like to use. The lower mounting points are not necessary, but encouraged. If you donít wish to use those, there are also other companies that offer more simple solutions: Cusco, Megan, Whiteline, SPC etc. Again, research and determine what is best for you. Beyond coilovers and LCAs, you donít really need anything else. The OEM toe links should offer enough toe adjustment to achieve the desired alignment in the rear. If not, youíll need aftermarket toe links or bushings. Sway bars are also preference and are not considered to be in need of upgrade. You might actually choose not to based on your setup for the car (more on that later).

For alignment settings, some people believe that you want to run a bunch of negative camber to help induce oversteer and make the car easier to drift. This IS NOT the case. In fact, running lower amounts of rear camber is beneficial because it will make the rear end feel more planted, and it will allow more even tire wear, meaning your money goes further. This doesnít meant that you need 0* camber in the rear. This actually isnít very good, because it will cause positive camber wear on these cars, unless youíre running very soft rear spring rates that allow a good amount of squat (Professional/Forumla D drivers do this). The sweet zone for this car is around -1.5* camber on the rear. This actually equates to pretty equal tire wear and will allow you to use all of the tire, rather than just a portion of it. If you feel as though the rear end is too planted, and too difficult to spin, make your changes elsewhere (damping, sway-bar settings, tire pressure, etc.). All of those can help loosen up the rear end without causing the car to eat through tires faster due to camber.

In the front end, having camber is beneficial. The reason being is because of the way your wheels rotate while going from lock to lock. If you are running 0* camber up front and youíre drifting around a right hand corner, your wheels are countered, pointing to the left. As you turn, your leading edge wheel (outside, where the weight of the car is being pushed) gains positive camber, while your trailing edge wheel (inside, where the weight is being lifted) gains negative camber. You want your leading edge wheel to have minimal camber, because that is where the weight is while drifting, and that allows more of that tire to be in contact with the ground. Running somewhere between -3* and -5* camber is common and I would recommend finding a setting that feels best to you in that range.

Toe comes down to user preference, just like every aspect of suspension settings. Itís important to note what each will do though. Toe-in up front will decrease the level of turn in, while toe-out will increase the level of turn in. Most people tend to run 0 or slight toe-out up front. The rear settings play a critical role, as it can make the car very twitchy, or very stable. Having toe-in on the rear will cause the car to feel more stable in the rear end, and will actually not be so enthusiastic about holding bigger angle or wider lines when drifting. This might suit some people better given the rest of their setup, or how they drive their cars. Toe-out on the rear will cause the car to hold drift easier, and will actually help in widening the arc of your drift, meaning drifting long sweepers at higher speed without gripping up is more easily done, however it can make the car very twitchy as well, and can cause the car to be more difficult in transitions. I personally choose to run 0* toe on the rear and very slight toe-out up front. Everybody is different though, so itís important to see what works best for you and the way you drive your car.

Caster is another aspect of your alignment but Iím not going to dig into that much. Most people drifting their FRS/BRZ on this forum are using the stock FLCAs and stock caster settings. Realistically, having a bit of increased caster is a good thing, but I wouldnít say itís necessary.


Power/Engine Modifications:
So, first thing that most might consider is the necessity to bring more power out of the car. The FA20 is only going to put down around 160hp at the wheels or so (depending on fuel and a variety of factors), and even less torque. To boot, thereís a huge dip right in the middle of the RPM range which limits torque even more. I will start by saying that more power IS NOT a necessity whatsoever. I did my first event with the car on nothing more than a muffler delete and coilovers, and the car did just fine. Entry speeds were running just south of 100mph initiating in 4thgear. The car was able to maintain drift, although you had to keep the throttle pinned and downshift to 3rdpart way through. While I say that a power increase is not needed, you would still benefit from a few changes to the engine. First and foremost is some sort of tune. I recommend this strongly WITH OR WITHOUT any additional aftermarket parts. The OFT (openflashtablet.com) is a fantastic option due to the price and how easy it is to use.

The biggest reason for this is because of the rev limiter. While youíre drifting, you might hit the rev limiter a bit here or there. This shouldnít be a common occurrence, but it does happen. Without any sort of aftermarket tuning solution, the rev limiter is very harsh and will cut the power long enough for you to fall out of the power band and lose drift. Tuning solutions like the OFT implement a ďsoft rev limiterĒ, which allows you basically hold the throttle right at that limiter, without the harsh cut. This can be useful in corners where youíre maxed out in 2ndgear, but you donít quite have the power or momentum to up-shift into 3rd.

In addition to the OFT, you may find yourself wanting more power. That is perfectly okay, but before spending thousands on something, itís important to think carefully about what you intend to do with the car. If the car is your daily driver, or if youíre wanting a more simplistic setup, I highly encourage you to stay N/A. Forced induction is definitely a popular option, but in all reality, a properly setup 200whp car will offer all you need for most tracks that the average person will be drifting on. If you intend to go further into the league of Pro-Am, or even Professional drifting, then Forced Induction, or even an engine swap might be a good option for you. However, I have not personally worked with FI setups or swaps on this car, so instead Iím going to focus on N/A platforms in this post.

A header paired with a tune is the absolute best way to ring out extra power and torque from the FA20 engine in the N/A category. The stock intake is efficient, but you are welcome to upgrade the filter, or swap for an entirely new intake system. An intake system will run around $300 or so compared to the drop-in filter, and gains will be marginal. This is up to you individually to determine if the extra few (and I do mean few) hp is worth the extra $200 over a simple drop-in filter. Also, keep in mind that a new intake will almost surely require MAF re scaling in the tune to keep from AFRs to get out of tolerance. As far as the header goes, you have the option between EL (equal length), and UEL (equal length). IN MOST CASES, the EL header will provide better peak output, while the UEL header will provide better mid range, helping get rid of the torque dip. The UEL will also give you more of the boxer rumble. This choice is entirely up to you. While drifting, youíll spend 95% of your time above 4,000rpms. In all reality, the UEL is probably the better choice because it offers much more mid range, but falls short to the EL header by just a few hp. Keep in mind this varies from one product to the next, so be sure to do your research. I personally went with the Tomei EL header (from tf-works.com) and couldnít have been any happier. The fit and finish was fantastic quality, it sounded great (I favor the EL sound), and I never felt as though I needed any more mid range power.

This will probably land you somewhere around 190whp or so. Again, it will vary from car to car, but you should see and feel a noticeable difference with the parts. Additional exhaust pieces are entirely up to you. Personally, I donít feel like theyíre worth it as a full exhaust from the header back (front/over pipe, mid pipe, axle back) will run well over $1,000 and the gains seem to be marginal, while also increasing the noise and level of rasp. I found that simply using a header and a simple axle back exhaust (Nameless track pipe is a good option) is a great combo that will give a nice, smooth tone, and not break the bank. Aside from that, there really isnít any need for any additional parts. An oil cooler would be a smart choice, as the car will be spending every run in the upper half of the RPMs the whole time, but other from that, there shouldnít be much of a reason to need anything else.


Drivetrain:
The drivetrain honestly doesnít really need much of any attention, so long as the rest of your setup is somewhat simple and realistic. The stock torsen diff does just fine in allowing the rear tires to spin. If you drive on a lot of banked courses, or drive a lot of courses with fast, consistent direction changes, you might find yourself wanting something with a more positive lock, like a clutch type 2-way LSD.

Switching to a clutch type differential will give a much more positive lock in the rear end, letting the tires break free and maintain drift. I donít think that itís necessary, but some may prefer the feeling of it over the standard torsen diff. While I agree that an aftermarket LSD is a better unit for drifting purposes, out of all my time driving mine, I never found myself on a course where I felt like I needed it, as the stock unit does just fine.


Steering angle:
This is a big point that can leave a lot of people stumped, as there are lots of various factors to determine. The biggest problem with this car and achieving more steering angle is the boxer engine. The boxer engine is very wide in dimension, and therefore, causes the frame rails to be very wide. Because of this, the amount of space available underneath the front fenders becomes very limited. Because of this, it is important to understand that everything you do between suspension setup, wheel/tire size, alignment etc. will be a compromise of one thing or another.

There are a few different ways you can increase the steering angle. The easiest and cheapest method is new inner tie rods. The inner tie rods have a rack spacer machined onto the knuckle where it meets the rack. This spaces the rod further out, allowing for more rack travel, which means more available lock. Keep in mind that this means the rack travels further, meaning there will be more turns from lock to lock. I used this setup and it added just under a quarter turn on the wheel in each direction to hit full lock. This will give a good increase of steering angle and wonít require anything special to make work.

You can also achieve more steering angle by cutting and re-welding the knuckles (spindles). Doing this shortens the arms and allows for more rotation in the spindle as you turn the wheel. This will not increase the amount of steering wheel rotation from lock to lock, meaning the wheels will turn more than original with steering input. Once you do this though, you may start to run into issues with the end links. The sway bar end links mount at the sway bar and the coilover. As the wheels turn, so does the coilover and with enough rotation, this will cause the end link to bind. You have a couple different options at this point:

1.Customize a mounting point to mount the end link to the front lower control arm, or run a control arm that has a mount for the end link attached.

2.Ditch the front sway bar and end links entirely.

I chose option two in conjunction with the tie rods. This eliminated the worry of running into sway bar end link bind. I also increased the spring rates in the front (from 6k to 8k) and went full stiff on damping in the front shocks. This allows the front suspension to carry the extra weight and help control the roll that the sway bar would normally carry/control. I highly recommend doing this if you choose to delete the front sway bar.

The last option for more steering angle is to find a complete kit that addresses all of these issues. As of right now, the only options that I know of are Parts Shop Max (around $1100 USD) and WiseFab (well over $2,000 USD). These kits address all of the issues and are very good options if you donít wish to piece something together or try and do the R&D yourself.


Wheels/Tires:
When it comes to wheels and tires, there are a few things to keep in mind. One is that you cannot run staggered diameter wheels (17Ē front, 18Ē rear). Technically, you could if the tire sizes are right on, but because the car utilizes speed sensors, if the front diameter is sensed to be more than 3% different from the rear diameter, it will cause the car to go into a ďlimpĒmode and will render the car useless until a different wheel/tire size is installed. While most donít care to run 17/18 staggered setups, I bring this up because a lot of people in the drifting world with 240s and rx7s and various other cars run 17/18 setups. If you run a standalone ECU, itís possible, but most reading this are probably not considering doing a standalone ECU.

Another factor to keep in mind is the front fender clearance. Remember the car has a boxer engine, causing the frame rails to be wide, which limits front fender space. As mentioned above with steering angle, this is a reason why something like an 18x10 may not be ideal, especially when considering adding more steering angle. Wide front fenders will help aid that issue, but itís something to pay attention to when searching for wheels.

In all reality, 17Ē wheels are best. The only thing 18Ē wheels will do is cost more for tires, and make it harder to spin the wheels. 17s have cheaper tire prices, theyíre easier to spin, and they allow you more options to choose from regarding wheel and tire size. As far as width goes, 8Ē-9Ē wide is a good zone to be in. Keep in mind, offset plays a big part here, but thereís no reason to run something like a 17x10 +20 wheel up front, when you could achieve the same fitment with a 17x9 +7 and would give you an additional inch of clearance inward, making it easier to run more steering angle.

To build off of that, tires are a big subject. Some people believe that drifting requires special tires. This is not the case, as cars use the same DOT approved tires found on street driven vehicles. The big thing to keep in mind on this car is tire size. This is for two main reasons:

1.The limited clearance means you need to be aware of what tire size you choose, as too wide or too tall can cause clearance issues, primarily up front.

2.Going too wide can lead to having too much grip, which will make the car much harder to drift, and will also cause increased stress on the driveline components, like the axles.

The stock size tires (215/45r17) actually seem to work very well for most people. Some people, including myself, choose to change to something like a 215/40r17. The shorter sidewall gives even more clearance to keep from rubbing with increased lock, when the vehicle has been lowered a good amount. The 215s are also able to spin pretty easily, whether the engine is completely stock, or the car is running a few bolt on pieces. If youíre running some sort of forced induction, you can choose to run a wider tire if youíd like, though I donít think Iíd go anything bigger than a 235/40 unless youíre putting down a considerable amount of power (over 300whp) and upgraded drivetrain components.

When it comes to the type of tire, or what compound, people seem to get stumped. Remember, the car has a low amount of hp and tq. Running tires like ZII Star Specs or RS3s on the back may not be the wisest of choices. The tires cost a good amount more, theyíll wear more quickly, and theyíll be more difficult to maintain drift due to the level of grip. As far as the front tires are considered, this comes down to personal preference. Some people like to have a good, high grip tire up front like ZIIs or AD08s, while others like the more balanced feel of running the same tire front and rear. No answer is wrong, as you might find out that you like one way more than the other.

Below is a list of tires that are popular for use with drifting. I also made note to specify which tires would be best to use just for the fronts, as they might have too much grip to run on the rear.
-Achilles ATR Sport

-Achilles ATR Sport 2

-Achilles 123S (front)

-Dunlop DZ102

-Dunlop ZII Star Spec (front)

-Federal SS595

-Federal 595 Evo

-Federal RS-R (front)

-GT Radial Champiro UHP1

-GT Radial Champiro HPY

-GT Radial Champior SX2 (front)

-Hankook RS3 (front)

-Kendai Kaiser KR20

-Nexen N3000

-Nexen N6000

-Nankang NS-1

-Nankang NS-II

-Nankang NS-20

-Nankang NS-2R (front)

-Toyo Proxes T1R

-Toyo Proxes R1R (front)

-Toyo Proxes RA1 (front)

-Yokohama S.drive

-Yokohama AD08/R (front)


Interior/Exterior:
This may seem odd to address but it goes hand in hand with a few other bits outlining the overall car setup. All of this comes to personal taste but there are a few things to consider. For the exterior, be mindful of what parts youíre using as it may cause some other items to not work properly. For instance, if you use Rocket Bunny fenders and shove 18x10 wheels up front, you may not be able to achieve full lock without rubbing unless youíve used the LCAs to widen your front track. Even then, it may not work and good research needs to be done prior.

As far as the interior is considered, the main point is to make everything feel comfortable and natural to you: the driver. Whatever steering wheel, seat, and shift knob you use, it should be natural and should not have you fumbling to get a good grip on things. I would recommend paying close attention to certain aspects of the shifter. Shifting from 2nd to 3rd or 3rd to 2nd can be a bit hard with a sloppy shifter, or a short, stiff shifter that doesnít have a good shift knob on it. Taller shift knobs with more leverage and things like MTEC shifter springs can help making find the right gear easier while in drift. Again, this is user preference and to be individually determined. I personally used MTEC shifter springs along with a Whiteline Transmission mount and Motul Fluid. This worked very well, even with the stock shift knob and gave me no issues finding the right gear.

The same goes from the steering wheel and seat. The seat should fit well and hold you in place, while the wheel should feel natural to hold and be at an appropriate distance away from you. If youíre a very tall person, and sit with the seat far back, you may want to look into a steering wheel setup that puts the wheel closer to your chest. Making a lot of steering corrections and input can become tiresome if your arms are stretched out reaching for the wheel. If the wheel is closer to you, it makes the task much easier. Again, this is user preference and to be individually determined.

The only thing I would strongly recommend for everybody to get is a turn spin knob, also commonly known as a drift knob. This replaces the stock button on your handbrake and allows you pull and release the hand brake without having to hold the button in. These run around $20 and is probably one of the first things you should buy when getting your car setup to drift.


Brakes:
A lot of people seem to be under the impression that you need a hydraulic handbrake setup for drifting now. Truth is, these hydraulic setups didnít even become really popular and widely used, even on a professional level until a few years ago. For a car running wide, very sticky tires with big power, and on courses with high speeds and concrete walls, a hydro setup is definitely beneficial. In a 2700lb, 200hp car with $50 tires on the back thoughÖ. Not so much of a necessity. The fact is the stock unit is completely fine and tons of people, including myself have used the stock unit on courses with entry speeds touching 100+mph and have had no issues.

Project Mu makes rear shoes which would be a good upgrade if you felt it was absolutely necessary, but a hydraulic setup is really just a waste of money for such a basic car, and that money could be used more effectively elsewhere.


The big thing that Iíve learned from this car is that simplicity is the answer to these cars. If all youíre planning on doing is going to local events and having fun with friends and being able to drive your car to and from the event, as well as on the street, then keep it simple. N/A with headers and tune, 17Ē wheels, coilovers, LCAs, increased steering angle, youíre good to go. This will give you a car thatís practical, reliable, able to drift 3rd gear courses easily without running into a bunch of mechanical issues or worry about breaking things every time you go out.
Thanks a lot for the post!
Did you have any issues with stock cooling system and overheating?
(I mean coolant radiator, fans, thermostat)

Also, what do you think about light weight pulley?

thanks
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Old 07-23-2015, 01:59 PM   #402
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Thanks a lot for the post!
Did you have any issues with stock cooling system and overheating?
(I mean coolant radiator, fans, thermostat)

Also, what do you think about light weight pulley?

thanks
Oil cooler would be a good idea.

Light weight pulley seems like a useless modification to me honestly.
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Old 08-16-2015, 01:39 PM   #403
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Oil cooler would be a good idea.

Light weight pulley seems like a useless modification to me honestly.
Do u drift with ur spare tire in or out? Need some help with alightment settings. Fa500 coils, isc control arms. For drifting i was going to leave my 2254517 on a 17x8 +45 on the fronts and put the stocks on the rears because they are still brand new. Lol. Any help or suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks
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Old 08-24-2015, 11:14 AM   #404
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@TylerLieberman is that the leg sport spoiler? Any idea where I can buy it? I've been looking everywhere and can't seem to find it
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Old 08-24-2015, 12:04 PM   #405
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Do u drift with ur spare tire in or out? Need some help with alightment settings. Fa500 coils, isc control arms. For drifting i was going to leave my 2254517 on a 17x8 +45 on the fronts and put the stocks on the rears because they are still brand new. Lol. Any help or suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks
I pulled everything out of my trunk. Between the spare, tools, and stock muffler, there was about 80lbs of weight I removed.

For alignment, I'd say start with something like -3 camber up front, with zero toe or slight toe out. If you're getting understeer on entry, try lowering front tire pressure. I personally prefer sticking with square wheel/tire setups on this car for drifting because it drives so much better.


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@TylerLieberman is that the leg sport spoiler? Any idea where I can buy it? I've been looking everywhere and can't seem to find it
Leg Sport
@Touge Factory can get it
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Old 10-19-2015, 07:53 PM   #406
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@TylerLieberman did you ever go with the PBM subframe risers? I saw you commenting on another post about em. If so, how hard was it?
Thanks
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