What's the verdict on the need of oil cooler?

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Nice, 6 hours is nothing though

And I've seen cooler temps in the pan due to air flow and oil volume. Depends on sensor location, etc. Sandwich plates often read hot because the block heats the sandwich plate itself.

I was just thinking about this. I didn't take into account the depth of the pan. Honda pans are really shallow and only hold 4-5 qts so even with sensor being the drainplug (at the very bottom) it's still pulling recently heated oil. But on a deep pan that also has cooling fins then I could see how the oil at the bottom of the pan has undergone some cooling before the temp gets picked up by the sensor (assuming the sensor being at the bottom).

This is all easy to swing to the equation though. If I know my pan is shallow and doesn't dissipate heat well and my sensor is at the bottom of it then I know the temp reading is on spot but if I have a deep pan that cools well then I can estimate a 260F reading is closer to 270-80 and respond accordingly.

How's that sound?

[zkubidu]

@Dave-ROR, where did you end up mounting the oil temp sensor? I think I missed it somewhere along the thread...

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by zkubidu

@Dave-ROR, where did you end up mounting the oil temp sensor? I think I missed it somewhere along the thread...

It's currently in a sandwich plate between the oil cooler and the oil filter. I want to get a reading off the OEM sensor to compare it with others.. I may move it again, not sure.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Oil cooler is done.. no leaks (at least nothing major, might be seeping I'll keep checking). Everything seems to work ok..

Defi oil pressure sensor with fastwrx.com (aka Mach V PM @Mach V Dan for info or buy from his website) block adapter piece:

Dave, did you use teflon tape for both the adapter and the sensor?

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

Dave, did you use teflon tape for both the adapter and the sensor?

It already comes on the adapter and I did use it on the sender.

[7thgear]

So how is it that a stock engine, which should have been stress tested by the engineers, is put out that can't handle more than a minute of being out on the track?


and what about all those people currently driving their cars without coolers that have no idea this posts exist, are they going to fry their engines soon, are they already fried, did Toyota really screw up on this one?

hard to buy that in order to enjoy this car as intended a person needs to dump a considerable amount of money to prevent the supposed damage?

I've already had a few long sessions at a track in the summer, is my engine already compromized?

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

So how is it that a stock engine, which should have been stress tested by the engineers, is put out that can't handle more than a minute of being out on the track?


and what about all those people currently driving their cars without coolers that have no idea this posts exist, are they going to fry their engines soon, are they already fried, did Toyota really screw up on this one?

hard to buy that in order to enjoy this car as intended a person needs to dump a considerable amount of money to prevent the supposed damage?

I've already had a few long sessions at a track in the summer, is my engine already compromized?

I wouldn't worry about any of that. I would use thicker oil based on pressure readings I've seen in my car, YMMV of course.

I race a car with no cooler for 24 hours straight. It runs 290-300+ (gauge stops at 300) oil temps the entire time. It has 222,000 miles on the engine,~5,000 since rebuilding it, 100% race miles since about 214k. Current leakdown/compression is identical to post-rebuild. We run thick oil in it (due to bearing clearances) but that's it. No cooler.. in fact the cooler I have on my BRZ is from that car, we removed it due to a leak at a fitting (wasn't tight enough) and decided the engine going away was a better risk than a leak removing us from a race weekend that cost us $5k. One is simply a lot more likely than the other.

Having said that, I run a cooler because I intend to track the BRZ a lot and daily drive it a lot. I don't want to rebuild it for 200,000 miles at least. Oil being cooler let's me be lazy. Hot oil can/does run at lower pressures and heat is one of the causes of shear in a VII (vis idx imp) oil. On the flip side, thicker oil actually results in higher engine oil temps as it's less effective at removing heat from the engine so everything heats up more.

My opinion is that an oil cooler is a good idea for a car that sees track use, especially in hot climates, but if UOAs are showing no major shear/etc and you are good about oil changes I wouldn't consider it a requirement. Thin oil that is shearing and at high temps (where it's vis/HTHS isn't very good) isn't great at protecting an engine from wear over the long haul. Thicker oil adds heat, which brings it closer to those points where it breaks down/shears/etc, hence the issue.. and eventually the desire for a cooler to bring temps down.

Thin as you can go, thick as is needed.

[7thgear]

So i shouldn't worry about a day's worth of autocross?

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

So i shouldn't worry about a day's worth of autocross?

I wouldn't. I've autocrossed and tracked the car without a cooler without worrying about it.

[Surok]

I spoke to tetsuya tada, and i asked him what is the max safe oil temp. he said 130C was the guideline. so if you are seeing beyond that, you need an oil cooler!

[Huehuecoyotl]

Originally Posted by Surok

I spoke to tetsuya tada, and i asked him what is the max safe oil temp. he said 130C was the guideline. so if you are seeing beyond that, you need an oil cooler!

Many will prefer adding an oil cooler well before 266F, thats is a little hot.

[Surok]

yes i prefer to have oil just 10 degrees more than coolant.

[brillo]

Has anyone noticed the car losing power due to oil temps?

[ATL BRZ]

Originally Posted by brillo

Has anyone noticed the car losing power due to oil temps?

Perrin did extensive testing and posted results in their blog: http://blog.perrinperformance.com/pe...-s-oil-cooler/

They measured a loss in power as the oil temps went past 100C