Open Letter to Potential FR-S Buyers & Disillusioned Owners

[UltramarineLuck]

Originally Posted by jflogerzi

And I don't understand if someone wants to get the car and then drop 10K into it, why does that bother you. Its there car, you worry about yours.

I get that some people do want that - I'm not saying no one should do that, but that they should really consider their options. Many people that shop for cars like this don't really understand what they're getting themselves into and they come to forums like this to see what you can get out of a car that only costs $25,000. In reality, the $35k-$40k segment offers many better options that will run faster than a modified FR-S with better interiors and fewer headaches, because they were designed out of the factory that way. That's the point.

[Frost]

Originally Posted by FRSupra

Why? Just so you can say it has that much HP? It' doesn't need anymore than it has.

Everyone loves HP, bottomline. But that's not what this car is about. This car is about handling performance and lightweight agility.

Let me put it this way, a mustang, for example has a high HP engine, but no amount of money will allow it to handle as good as the 86, because it simply does not have a boxer style engine (mounted as far back and as low as possible). Just as no amount of money could make the 86 as powerful as the mustang, because it simply does not have the powerplant, or the components to go with it.

If you were to add more power, your also adding weight, which changes handling performance and before you know it, it will not be an 86 anymore.

Do you really want more power, or just the idea of knowing it has more power? Do you just want to say it has X amount of power.

Cars that are considered "driving nirvana" never have had tons of power.

See this is why I love some of the peeps on this forum. I am buying the car for the platform and a foundation for track racing and autocross. If I can add power to the car once my skills have gotten up there, it saves me from buying another car. I am only adding up to another 50hp down the road. Not instantly mind you, down the road. The value of 200-220whp is just a number I am pulling out of the air because it seems like that is what something like the S2k and RX8 do and all the other comparos with them and the Twins say, yeah, the extra power does bring it up to perfection.

So then my question remains - if the S2k is there already, why not just buy the S2k? If the Twins can take another 50hp, then I get the Twins (newer car, I get to break her in, take care of her) and then eventually bring it up to that level.

I know that the car wasn't designed with super high hp in mind but I am only asking for a little bit more. That's why I was so interested in Dezoris' build because he hit the magical number. I still keep tabs on it today to see how well it chugs on.

It's the same quest I was on 6 years ago when I bought my old 87 MR2. I didn't care for power but I knew, with certain mods, it could be made to put out a little bit more power - when I was ready for it (I never did get there but I knew it could). The same long term thinking applies for this upcoming car - can it grow with me?

[UltramarineLuck]

Originally Posted by FRSRAVEN

I'm not a "tuner", and never fit in with the "tuner" crowd. I should never have bought a tuner car. For some its grand, for others its just not the right fit. The problem is it had such a strong hype train that it seduced some people who probably wouldn't have bothered with that type of car otherwise.

The irony of this situation is that the hype was for the base car without modifications. Much of the raving happened before the car even came out and before there was any tuning available at all. Many journos love the stock car (see Chris Harris' review and plea for the tuner crowd to leave it well alone) because it makes them feel like a Cayman does in the corners at a price that a young audience can afford. Yes, of course the Cayman is better, but the FR-S is a car that, if understood, could actually get young people back into performance cars and driving, something that's largely been on the decline for the past decade.

That said, some guys do like the extra power (TopGear and Farah come to mind), but many think reasonable tunes are the way to go (Road & Track).

[jflogerzi]

Originally Posted by UltramarineLuck

I get that some people do want that - I'm not saying no one should do that, but that they should really consider their options. Many people that shop for cars like this don't really understand what they're getting themselves into and they come to forums like this to see what you can get out of a car that only costs $25,000. In reality, the $35k-$40k segment offers many better options that will run faster than a modified FR-S with better interiors and fewer headaches, because they were designed out of the factory that way. That's the point.

I do see your point and I respect it. I would not worry to much about it and go enjoy the car the way you want to.

[FRSupra]

Originally Posted by Frost

The value of 200-220whp is just a number I am pulling out of the air because it seems like that is what something like the S2k and RX8 do and all the other comparos with them and the Twins say, yeah, the extra power does bring it up to perfection.

So then my question remains - if the S2k is there already, why not just buy the S2k?

Let's not forget the s2k was nearly $10k more and, even it not by much, weighed more. I have driven an AP1 S2000, and as much as I loved it, it still did not feel as connected to the road as the 86. Plus, the former was a convertible, so it will never be a rigid or handle as good as the 86.

[stevesnj]

I need a new car. That's the reason I am saving up cash to buy it out right 100%. I will use it as a daily driver so installing major mods on this car to me isn't practical. If I wanted a faster car I'd wait longer and save up for a faster car. Those that heavily modify this car like the car but not the engine and or drivetrain. But to each their own but I agree with the OP. If you buy the car and complain about it's lack of power, why did you buy it in the first place?

[MokSpeed]

Originally Posted by paulca

It will NOT be modded.

I never liked this statement. Upgrading an air filter or simply changing oils is considered a mod. Unless you're sticking with Michelin Primacys forever, once you change tires it's considered a mod.


Every car is modified. Every.

[acg2010]

The whole situation reminds me of Barney Frank's famous motto - "compared to what?"

For me - the car isn't slow, because I've driven a FWD sport coupe for a long time with 175 hp that had a 0-60 time identical to the AT FR-S. Before that I drove a 350z around when they first came out. That car had some pretty solid power for a V6 of its pricing at the time. But it definitely could get away from you easily - especially in bad weather. I remember some serious rain storms sliding in the lane/road and having to really be careful to keep it controlled.

The 86 twins are great because they have the cool sporty coupe look that I've had since I started driving (never driven a car that wasn't a sport coupe) and enough power to not be roadkill, but not enough to get away from you. The V8 5.0 Mustang was another car I've considered, because I thought - wow wouldn't it be cool to go from a slow fwd sports coupe to a big roaring V8. But that's one of those cars that you get on and it can get away from you and get you into serious ticket speeds etc.

I agree it's all about expectations. At this point - no one should be confusing this with a fast straight line car.

Just my .02

[ZionsWrath]

You have to also consider what do you get with this car stock that you don't get with other cars even if they cost more.

You get a few things

1. Good stock suspension
2. Relatively light weight (cheaper wear items)
3. A fabulous aftermarket

I think it is really a to each his own. You can spend money make this car more power, or spend money and make a heavier more powerful car lighter and handle better. Or spend more money and get a car that is stock lightweight and powerful.

Cars are really a bottomless pit of options and modifications. There is always something more/better.

Run what you brung and have fun.

[husker741]

This thread is gonna be pretty funny after awhile because every other post is going to agree with the opposing side.

[FRSupra]

A thread wouldn't be a thread without Husker giving his .02.


@husker741 you're always adding fuel to some kind of fire. I'm gonna call it "huskertising"

[acg2010]

Originally Posted by husker741

This thread is gonna be pretty funny after awhile because every other post is going to agree with the opposing side.

Bad statistics. Maybe a random sample would have a 50/50 split, but given that this is an 86 forum, you're going to have inherent sampling bias. Chances are more than 50% of the people here like this car and thought there was no reason to go buy a 10k more car, just because they end up spending 10k on this one.

[1086]

In reality, the 86 is brilliant stock. What is more brilliant is there are FI options, like the Jackson Racing SC Kit (w/ oil cooler) for example, where you can safely move to the 250-280 whp mark and it will still retain it's stock quality/feel/handling/etc.

The necessity for someone to make it compare to a $40,000 and up car seems a bit silly. The 86 has it's own unique platform for a reason, so posting other options like the Focus ST and Mustang V6 seems futile because they do not compare, ever. Many people forget about power to weight ratio and how light the 86 platform is versus some of the suggestion you proposed, which are boats. Whoever buys an 86, and then sells it for a mustang or focus ST obviously has/had no idea the philosophy and point behind this platform. It is meant to be wonderful stock and it is also meant to be a wonderful benchmark to tune the crap out of. Hands down.

[1086]

Originally Posted by UltramarineLuck

Again, it's not about mass perception adjustment, more so as a way for people to line their expectations up with reality.

Most people don't understand what "fast" feels like - and that's because fast feels different in every car. Fast in a Rolls Royce Wraith feels different than a Surbaru WRX, but they also happen at different speeds. They expect that because the number is higher on the speedometer that they'll be happier with the car, and that's often not the case. Many modern supercars have to be pushed very hard (unreasonably hard, to unreasonable speeds that are not attainable even once a month) to "feel" fast.

This post is for the person that thinks they need a machine that goes 100+ mph and probably doesn't. Guys that track their cars already know what they want and need, but daily drivers? Probably not.

Pretty sure this car can easily go 100+ miles per hour. So can a camry. 100 mph = 100 mph