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Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting What these cars were built for!


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Old 05-26-2016, 12:39 PM   #3879
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Track question,

I have KW V3 on 17x9 rims with Yokohama AD08R which are 3 years old but heaps of tread.

I have all traction on, and when I take a sharp left hand corner on approach and then while exiting the corner my traction light is going ballistic and im not even cornering fast. I then want to power out it seems to not have traction. would going VSC help ? my thinking is that if its losing grip with traction on with it either on off or VSC it will be worst

My current setting for the KW V3 are

Rebound Front 13 from hard setting
rear 14 from hard setting

Bump F 8 from hard setting
R 12 from hard setting

I read up and well when they say rear is losing traction should soften the rebound which I did from 10 to 14 and still the car just feel like it wont put the power down.

I was also advised that to chase the grip I should adjust the compression on the end that lack grip. but then reading more forums they tell you opposite increase front end compression? so confused
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Old 05-26-2016, 12:51 PM   #3880
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I have all traction on
Here is your first problem.
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Old 05-26-2016, 01:00 PM   #3881
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I have all traction on,
Do a quick on "pedal dance". I know @CSGMike has a thread on it somewhere.
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Old 05-26-2016, 01:07 PM   #3882
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Here is your first problem.

I usually don't but that day I was just caught up with tuning the suspension and had it in my head well if I had it off totally i'll be off the track. Other times when I had VSC on and had to slow down to a sharp hairpin turn, I sort advice to soften the rears and that improved the grip,this is a different track though.

would compression make big difference when adjusted. I keep reading that is only for bumps etc, and this track is smooth as no bumps
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Old 05-26-2016, 01:18 PM   #3883
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Originally Posted by catcha View Post
Track question,

I have KW V3 on 17x9 rims with Yokohama AD08R which are 3 years old but heaps of tread.

I have all traction on, and when I take a sharp left hand corner on approach and then while exiting the corner my traction light is going ballistic and im not even cornering fast. I then want to power out it seems to not have traction. would going VSC help ? my thinking is that if its losing grip with traction on with it either on off or VSC it will be worst

My current setting for the KW V3 are

Rebound Front 13 from hard setting
rear 14 from hard setting

Bump F 8 from hard setting
R 12 from hard setting

I read up and well when they say rear is losing traction should soften the rebound which I did from 10 to 14 and still the car just feel like it wont put the power down.

I was also advised that to chase the grip I should adjust the compression on the end that lack grip. but then reading more forums they tell you opposite increase front end compression? so confused
Bro go to track and try pedal dance. I used to think the same thing, "if stability control is coming on it must be saving me from a spin"

100% not the case. I wish I did pedal dance from the start, once you do it you will wonder WTF the computer was "saving" you from.
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Old 05-26-2016, 01:19 PM   #3884
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Bro go to track and try pedal dance. I used to think the same thing, "if stability control is coming on it must be saving me from a spin"

100% not the case. I wish I did pedal dance from the start, once you do it you will wonder WTF the computer was "saving" you from.
Thanks I shall try it
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Old 05-26-2016, 01:27 PM   #3885
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I usually don't but that day I was just caught up with tuning the suspension and had it in my head well if I had it off totally i'll be off the track. Other times when I had VSC on and had to slow down to a sharp hairpin turn, I sort advice to soften the rears and that improved the grip,this is a different track though.

would compression make big difference when adjusted. I keep reading that is only for bumps etc, and this track is smooth as no bumps
If you're trying to test one variable, you have to keep all the others constant.

IE, if you normally drive in pedal dance mode, but decide you want to make suspension changes, you're changing a variable by then driving with the TC on.
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Old 05-26-2016, 03:48 PM   #3886
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13s are more aggressive than 08s. Just a way to balance bias when you can't adjust hydraulic bias.

Good info. We'll see how we like the 01/08 combo on the AP calipers and go from there. We talked to PFC, and they don't offer the 08/13 combo since the balance is totally thrown off IF you don't do the pedal dance. With EBD disabled, it's great. So we'll see if we can talk them into making us some pads. If not, we'll get some pads from somewhere else. We've had good luck getting custom pads made from Cobalt in the past.
Thank you.

08/08 on stock FR-s calipers was also a little wonky sometimes without the pedal dance. It didn't like trail braking in high grip situations. I caught the car trying to straighten itself out going into the toe of the boot at the Glen where you have a ton of mechanical grip diving into the hill. Pedal dance cured that right up.

If you can convince PFC to make the 08's for the AP calipers, put me down for a few sets. I run them at all 4 corners on the C4 Vette (3x power with ~550lbs more mass) and they are perfect confident workhorses.
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Old 05-26-2016, 03:59 PM   #3887
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That's interesting. Over here our tracks tend to be much larger/faster.

My home track is one of the smaller "club" tracks in the country (Hallett) and even a FAST car with a FAST driver on Hoosiers or similar is still an 82-85 second lap. And in 10 turns and 1.8 miles, it still has something like 110ft elevation change.
If you ever get up this way and want a real rollercoaster, go to Palmer. 2.3mi, 15 turns, and 190' of elevation changes. Almost every corner is a way late and blind apex. It's a must drive.
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Old 05-26-2016, 04:06 PM   #3888
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I usually don't but that day I was just caught up with tuning the suspension and had it in my head well if I had it off totally i'll be off the track. Other times when I had VSC on and had to slow down to a sharp hairpin turn, I sort advice to soften the rears and that improved the grip,this is a different track though.

would compression make big difference when adjusted. I keep reading that is only for bumps etc, and this track is smooth as no bumps
TC on our cars is fairly easy to trip in any mode and very intrusive. Even with everything off, slight surface undulations mid- agressive corner can set that light off.

Try the pedal dance the other guys have been suggesting before you start making suspension changes. Once you feel truly confident the issue is with the vehicle handling, not the electrical nannies or even the way you're driving (the smoother you are the less chance to trip anything), then start tinkering with mechanics.
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Old 05-26-2016, 05:56 PM   #3889
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I was with a instructor once who wanted all aids left on. The entire lap, for every single inch of every corner I had traction control going off pulsing random brakes and slowing me. It's incredibly intrusive. Holding the button untill both orange lights is on will help for that but the braking will still be off. The Pedal dance is definitely the way to go, at least for a session. It's good to learn good habits.
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Old 05-26-2016, 06:22 PM   #3890
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I was with a instructor once who wanted all aids left on. The entire lap, for every single inch of every corner I had traction control going off pulsing random brakes and slowing me. It's incredibly intrusive. Holding the button untill both orange lights is on will help for that but the braking will still be off. The Pedal dance is definitely the way to go, at least for a session. It's good to learn good habits.
Get signed off for solo. What run group/organization?

I know Audi says they want it on the first 2 run groups and Porsche instructors said they are told the students should have it on.

But it also depends on your instructor. Talk to them before going out and if you aren't on the same page talk to the head instructor and see if they can find you someone to work with.
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Old 05-26-2016, 06:29 PM   #3891
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If you want to start dialing in your suspension, I'd start looking at tire temperatures and pressures first. At the end of your session, stop as soon as you can (in pit lane, if allowed) and record tire pressures while they're still hot.

As a general rule of thumb, though, you want the suspension to be as soft as you can get away with. On the Viper project where we redesigned the suspension from scratch, increasing compliance (of the suspension as a whole, not like bushing stiffness) was a major goal of ours. The car previously had 1200lb/in springs in the rear with a low motion ratio (0.6) and now it's down to 800 lb/in at 0.8 MR. That's a HUGE difference in allowable deflection over on-track disturbances, and we can already tell a big difference in performance. The car just ignores bumps and dips that used to be super disturbing.

For an 86, we're still figuring out the "magic" spring rates for a track setup. We're running the Tarmac 2 shocks and springs for now. We're planning to soften up the rear spring rates, since we weren't happy with the ride frequency split and Myles (at RCE) suggested a softer rate.

Low body roll is generally a good thing since it speeds up weight transfer, but if it comes from stiff springs that put too much of the burden on the tires, it'll adversely affect how the car drives over bumps and imperfections. How does the car feel over bumps on the track? Like, here at Cresson, there are two big bumps on track we look at for examples of high shock speeds. One's at the exit of Big Bend, and the other's at the entry to Buzzard Neck. Do you get loose over those?
Both are spots to watch for me, less so now that I have rear LCAs and corner balanced the car. My camber isn't aggressive.

I've experimented with tire pressure from 38 to 28. Around 32 feels better. My Flex Tein Z are 3 clicks from full still so I have room there.

I'll be setup to record video and times at the June Apex event. Borrowing a setup I'm around a consistent 1:31 on the 1.7 CCW.
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Old 05-26-2016, 08:02 PM   #3892
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Get signed off for solo. What run group/organization?
Every 3 weeks or so there is a sprint meet anyone can attend. Our local 86/brz club has enough people to fill out a run group of 12-20. We're actually starting to get close to two groups. If you look up lakeside there is a ton of armcos on every runoff point so if you spin, you have a high chance of writing off your car. As such our club makes it so new guys must get some training from a ex race driver that manages the track. Its affordable and gou get a theory class, lines pointed out and about 10-20 laps with him instructing for $100. Our group is also very strict as to pointing someone past and only overtaking on the straights unless pointed past. Great group thats very very safe.
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