Guys, would you say our FRS's handling is same or better than BMW's?

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by n2oinferno

As compared to what other vehicle its size or price?

But that's the point. The M3/M4 isn't supposed to be that large, regardless of it's actual weight. A lot of people like to compare the 911 and M3. Their size and weight used to be very similar. But now a 911 is 200-400lbs lighter, depending on model and trim.

Hell even the upcoming M2 is too large. BMW vehicles have become quite the heifers.

[n2oinferno]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

But that's the point. The M3/M4 isn't supposed to be that large, regardless of it's actual weight. A lot of people like to compare the 911 and M3. Their size and weight used to be very similar. But now a 911 is 200-400lbs lighter, depending on model and trim.

Hell even the upcoming M2 is too large. BMW vehicles have become quite the heifers.

Haven't most vehicles gained a good bit of weight though? I know everything has gotten larger. A lot of that is in the name of safety, and some of it has to do with people just wanting larger cars in general. But I see the 1/2-series as more of a spiritual successor to the older 3-series cars. So in a way, maybe BMW agreed, so they decided to fill that gap.

edit: I'm not trying to defend weight gains or the gradual enlarging of vehicles. Someone would just have to take a peek to the left to see what I drive to figure out that I don't care for that stuff, haha. But I imagine a lot of it has to do with costs too. High strength steel, aluminum, and carbon fiber aren't cheap. Cars get more expensive, and in return they're more expensive to insure as well because of the higher value compounded with the higher costs of repair if it was involved in an accident.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

But that's the point. The M3/M4 isn't supposed to be that large, regardless of it's actual weight. A lot of people like to compare the 911 and M3. Their size and weight used to be very similar. But now a 911 is 200-400lbs lighter, depending on model and trim.

Hell even the upcoming M2 is too large. BMW vehicles have become quite the heifers.

The M235i is supposed to be quite a good handling car, from the reviews I've seen. It is still a bit on the heavy side, and I wish BMW were still making truly small cars, but I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the new 2 series...

[NoOneBetter]

I own an e36m3 and I have a considerable amount of seat time with the BRZ. Stock for stock the BRZ feels much firmer and nimble than an e36m3. That, plus the steering response puts the BRZ above the e36m3 imo. That being said, throw some coilovers and tires on both vehicles and the e36m3 will leave the BRZ far behind in terms of overall performance.

[JW89225]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

But that's the point. The M3/M4 isn't supposed to be that large, regardless of it's actual weight. A lot of people like to compare the 911 and M3. Their size and weight used to be very similar. But now a 911 is 200-400lbs lighter, depending on model and trim.

Hell even the upcoming M2 is too large. BMW vehicles have become quite the heifers.

The M3 has always been relatively light for a sport saloon even when you compare to the sports cars of its time.

Case in point.

997 Turbo 3487lbs
E92 M3 Coupe 3649lbs
R8 V10 3583lbs

Of course the weight will vary depending on how you load up the car too. I think the weight is not that bad for the size, considering its from a saloon car base, up against purpose built sports car. It is 2014 after all not 1994 so the definition of weight should move with the times.

It is very light in its class actually when you consider a C63 AMG weights almost 3900lbs.

The M3 GTS weighing in at 3395lbs is not bad at all. Finally, to address the commonly complained notion that the E92 M3 had grown massively compare to the E46 M3, the E92 bone stock with minimal option with the huge V8 is only around 40lbs more. Again, how people option their car can affect the difference as well.

[WolfpackS2k]

M3 GTS was never sold outside of Europe. And the M3 isn't even close to the R8 and 911 turbo, level. It can't even breathe the same air.


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[E46toFT86]

E46 M3 FTMFW

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by E46toFT86

E92 M3 FTMFW

fixt.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by King Tut

fixt.

NO.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

NO.

S2k FTW?

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by King Tut

S2k FTW?

[E46toFT86]

Originally Posted by King Tut

fixt.

E36, E46, E90/92, F80 FTMFW

FIXED

[krayzie]

Wow no love / money for E30 M3?

[drift86]

I was fortunate enough to drive a E92 M3 back to back with my 86 at a racetrack recently.

Speed and engine wise, there is no comparison. The M3's engine is just purely awesome and the car can run rings around the 86 on a track. The throttle response is so sharp and the engine note with a modified exhaust is delicious.

This M3 had much better tyres than the worn stockies in my 86. It could go around corners quicker, but also had enough power to slide around.

Where the 86 shines is in its perfectly weighted controls and driving feedback. The steering on the 86 was more connected to the road and had a much quicker ratio making the car feel more responsive. The brake feel was also better, with a firmer feel and more feedback. Overall I just felt like I was more involved in the driving experience in the 86 than the M3 which felt more isolated. It felt more rewarding and I had more fun when I was doing a slower lap time in the 86 than when I was doing a much faster lap in the M3.

The 86 also feels like it can do hot laps all day long. It would get very expensive to do that in the heavier M3 with the servicing and tyre replacement costs..