Will the 2015 get this power boost?

[Opie]

Originally Posted by Trojan_SC

Of course this was a "Tit-for-tat" thing. Why else would they make a car they didn't really want to make in the first place? Toyota got Subaru's resources to build the car (factory, manpower), and Subaru got Toyota's DI technology at their disposal to use for future vehicles (Forester for example)

Subaru was never against this car, there were design & engineering differences along the way as should've been expected, that being said there is a lot of false speculation in this thread. Subaru & Toyota have different car building philosophies, merging those philosophies required compromise. Subaru wanted a 2 door coupe but didn't want to invest the capital to build this car on their own not knowing if it would sell and Toyota could've built this car on their own but think redesigned last gen-Celica.

Subaru had Toyota help them with the DI on the BRZ resulting in a merged (Subaru FI/Toyota DI) system...and from what they learned they designed their own DI used on the new Forester XT, new WRX & STI that are nothing like the DI on the BRZ. In fact, if the BRZ had the Subaru designed DI, it would be a much better car...without the crickets and torque dip...among other things.

[meeskee2]

Time to bust out my favorite emoji...

[Boxer486]

Originally Posted by Opie

Subaru was never against this car....Subaru wanted a 2 door coupe but didn't want to invest the capital to build this car on their own not knowing if it would sell

First off, where is the link proving you are not speculating? Second, this statement sounds like a contradiction. They wanted to build a 2 door coupe but didn't know if it would and didn't have the money.

Subaru had Toyota help them with the DI on the BRZ resulting in a merged (Subaru FI/Toyota DI) system...and from what they learned they designed their own DI used on the new Forester XT, new WRX & STI that are nothing like the DI on the BRZ. In fact, if the BRZ had the Subaru designed DI, it would be a much better car...without the crickets and torque dip...among other things.

Third, the DI on the BRZ is not what Toyota uses either, no Lexus uses these injectors or seals and none of them have a torque dip. Fourth, you're again the one speculating that Subaru's DI would be better on the NA FA20. Especially since they didn't have one prior, so not sure how that even comes to fruition. Also, the cricket thing is pure typical Subaru vendor quality all the way, no ifs, ands or buts about it.

The number of people that praise Subaru for the good things about the 86 and the number of people that bash Toyota for problems with the 86 are telling of inherent fanboy bias. If anyone thinks a Japanese made Subaru is more refined and reliable than a Japanese made Toyota, they are simply ill informed. People that have owned both know better.

.

[JS + BRZ]

Will probably get very little more power. It's very hard to get more out of this 2.0 NA anyway.

If anything, they will come out with STi variant which will be boosted and have about +$7k higher sticker price which is in line with WRX/STI pricing strategy.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm quite satisfied with the power my BRZ has at the moment. I'm sure I would want some more once my driver mod gets upgraded.

[lazee]

i'll just leave this here
http://blog.caranddriver.com/subaru-...o-stop-asking/

[Opie]

Originally Posted by Boxer486

First off, where is the link proving you are not speculating?

Subaru doesn't publish internal memo's to the internet.

Originally Posted by Boxer486

Second, this statement sounds like a contradiction. They wanted to build a 2 door coupe but didn't know if it would and didn't have the money.

Subaru has wanted another 2 door coupe since the Impreza coupe was discontinued. And has offered several 2 door concept cars over the years since but never committed the money or engineering to actually build one. With Toyota sharing the development costs it was beneficial for both companies, but not without compromise on both sides as well.

Originally Posted by Boxer486

Third, the DI on the BRZ is not what Toyota uses either, no Lexus uses these injectors or seals and none of them have a torque dip.

All later-model Lexus engine's ending with FSE use a similar dual-injection system like the D4-S found in the twins, it is used for emissions, drivability and to reduce carbon buildup. The twins were just the first to implement it.

Originally Posted by Boxer486

Fourth, you're again the one speculating that Subaru's DI would be better on the NA FA20. Especially since they didn't have one prior, so not sure how that even comes to fruition.

Since it doesn't exist on the FA20 you are correct it is speculation. But considering that Subaru's DI on the 2014 Forester XT is better, I would surmise that it would be just as good on the twins as well. You should go drive one and see for yourself, or the 2015 WRX/STI when they hit dealers next month. I have, and all have much better DI systems in both engineering and driving characteristics than the twins.

Originally Posted by Boxer486

Also, the cricket thing is pure typical Subaru vendor quality all the way, no ifs, ands or buts about it.

That is funny since the HPFP is a Lexus (Toyota) sourced part that is also having chirping issues on the Lexus' it is now used on.

[raven1231]

Why do we have these threads? More so why do we have 15 different versions of it? Anything mentioned in any of these holds zero value and is 100% speculation.

[Boxer486]

Originally Posted by Opie

Subaru doesn't publish internal memo's to the internet.

Such a statement doesn't help your case does it?

Subaru has wanted another 2 door coupe since the Impreza coupe was discontinued. And has offered several 2 door concept cars over the years since but never committed the money or engineering to actually build one. With Toyota sharing the development costs it was beneficial for both companies, but not without compromise on both sides as well.

I'm sure they were thinking of a low CoG, 2-door RWD lightweight coupe just like the Impreza coupe. Oh wait, that would be more like the AE86, not the Impreza. That's a Toyota vehicle fyi.

All later-model Lexus engine's ending with FSE use a similar dual-injection system like the D4-S found in the twins, it is used for emissions, drivability and to reduce carbon buildup. The twins were just the first to implement it.

You skipped over or are simply unaware of the fact that the point was Lexus DI injectors are NOT the same as the ones on the 86, they have an extra seal for starters. Dual injection wasn't the point and you are obfuscating the original argument. You are actually quite wrong to say the twins were the first to use it as well. You've really missed the boat on that claim.

Since it doesn't exist on the FA20 you are correct it is speculation. But considering that Subaru's DI on the 2014 Forester XT is better, I would surmise that it would be just as good on the twins as well. You should go drive one and see for yourself, or the 2015 WRX/STI when they hit dealers next month. I have, and all have much better DI systems in both engineering and driving characteristics than the twins.

The XT, WRX and STI are all turbocharged and are using appropriate tunes to the task. That tells you nothing at all about which has a better DI system. They are all getting worse MPG too even using a CVT. If you don't like the FA20 tune, go change it as many on this forum have. Don't pretend to know the Subaru DI system is better when you aren't even making a proper comparison. I also don't need to drive any Subaru to know from experience that the DI system on any Lexus 2GRFSE or 1URFSE smokes anything from FHI. You should test drive those, they don't have turbo lag.

That is funny since the HPFP is a Lexus (Toyota) sourced part that is also having chirping issues on the Lexus' it is now used on.

Got a link? I can't seem to find these Lexus crickets you mention. I'll make sure to ask my friend who is a Lexus Master Tech what he's heard about that.

[gt8613]

Originally Posted by DylanFRS

The problem with the "more powa" thing is that for a long time there has been a handful of enthusiasts (us) that wanted a cool, lightweight, RWD, sports car that we could afford. Something like an MX-5 but better looking and more practical. We would even say things like "It's okay if it doesn't have a ton of power, just make it fun to drive!" The rest of the enthusiasts were perfectly happy with their WRXs, EVOs, turbo'd Hondas, Mustangs, MS3s, S2000s, 350Zs, etc...

Well Toyota came along, and with the help of Subaru, built a car for those of us who had a dream for an affordable, lightweight, RWD coupe...

Unfortunately, it attracted the attention of all of the "other enthusiasts" who decided that it was a great car... if only it had more power. And unfortunately, those people became opinionated and very vocal about our affordable, lightweight, RWD sports car. Suddenly their WRXs and Evos and whatnot, weren't enough for them, they wanted our car... but more like their car...

Now we got the car we wanted, but there is a downside to every happy ending, and that is that we have to deal with them...

The End.

They are jealous that his car garners more attention than theirs and is more of the "pure sports car" than theirs. Then they want that 300 hp engine cause their fat cars can't speed up without them nor can any one of them actually drive and so they know nothing about twists and turns and handling. Now they think anything sub-300 hp and more than 5 secs in a straight line is slow.

[Darkrune]

Originally Posted by DylanFRS

The problem with the "more powa" thing is that for a long time there has been a handful of enthusiasts (us) that wanted a cool, lightweight, RWD, sports car that we could afford. Something like an MX-5 but better looking and more practical. We would even say things like "It's okay if it doesn't have a ton of power, just make it fun to drive!" The rest of the enthusiasts were perfectly happy with their WRXs, EVOs, turbo'd Hondas, Mustangs, MS3s, S2000s, 350Zs, etc...

Well Toyota came along, and with the help of Subaru, built a car for those of us who had a dream for an affordable, lightweight, RWD coupe...

Unfortunately, it attracted the attention of all of the "other enthusiasts" who decided that it was a great car... if only it had more power. And unfortunately, those people became opinionated and very vocal about our affordable, lightweight, RWD sports car. Suddenly their WRXs and Evos and whatnot, weren't enough for them, they wanted our car... but more like their car...

Now we got the car we wanted, but there is a downside to every happy ending, and that is that we have to deal with them...

The End.

I actually dumped my evo X for the brz because it was so much more fun.

[jkonquer]

I believe neither company ever raised the hp on their same model vehicle. But both did changed very minor things like bumper, headlamp, badging, stereo, and etc, but overall design and power output stayed the same. In subaru's case they did manage to upgrade the engine efficiency by using variable valve timing, more efficient turbo, and lot of emission changes in the past. Again, never bumped the power output. Although newer engines made substantial hp over older engine when tuned.
I can see the same thing happening for brz and frs.

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

There's a thread over in the FR-S section that links to an article in which Tada talks about a coming power boost for the 86:


Likelihood of whatever is decided upon making it to the BRZ? My guess is it's very high. Certainly won't be buying a 2014 now, and might hold off on that C7 I've been speccing....

Short version: no, and not the 2016 or 17 models either. Maybe the '18 if they're going to at all, but that's it.

Don't expect factory FI either.

On phone I am. Therefore, if mistakes I make, Frank Oz blame you should.

[Sleeperz]

There are various speculations about the future of the Scion brand. But it seems that the future will be brighter for the Toyota’s Scion division. It is recently reported that the Scion division of Toyota will create a 4-door saloon car and launched it as the 2016 FR-S car.

http://2015toyotalexus.com/2016-scion-fr-s/

The engine that will be installed is the 2.5-liter that will be powered by 250 horses, a transmission that will carry a six-speed automatic.

http://www.2015bestcarsreviews.com/2...-release-date/


fwiw

Originally Posted by SirBrass

Short version: no, and not the 2016 or 17 models either. Maybe the '18 if they're going to at all, but that's it.

Don't expect factory FI either.

On phone I am. Therefore, if mistakes I make, Frank Oz blame you should.

[johnnyfast11]

seriously. delete or close this thread.