Drift-Office : Phantom Supercharger - Tuned!

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by xsnapshot

Can't to see what this thing makes with full bolt-ons + tune+ E85 (or even 93)

I would expect some pretty big gains with full boltons and E85, maybe 15-20%? I wonder with Phantom ESC + boltons + E85 if you'd have to go with larger injectors?

[mid_life_crisis]

Doing the math in my head and assuming "full bolt-ons" would include headers, once you add it all up, you might as well just get one of the entry level turbo kits.
To me, this is for owners that don't want to do a lot of messing with their cars. Simple installation that almost drops in and relatively low cost. Start adding on all that other stuff and you just lost the "economical" part that is so much of the appeal.

[xsnapshot]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

Doing the math in my head and assuming "full bolt-ons" would include headers, once you add it all up, you might as well just get one of the entry level turbo kits.
To me, this is for owners that don't want to do a lot of messing with their cars. Simple installation that almost drops in and relatively low cost. Start adding on all that other stuff and you just lost the "economical" part that is so much of the appeal.

That's one way of looking at it. You've also increased the weight and complexity more-so than this kit. Additionally you will have turbo lag. (prob a higher impact on MPG as well)

I personally think a VERY well balanced setup would be a full exhaust system, E85, and this ESC.

[xwd]

Honestly I don't know if it would be great for autocross due to the unpredictable power delivery. If you had the second recharger and could get on and off throttle quickly without much difference in power delivery thats a different story. It also doesn't make enough power for a car to be competitive in the autox class it would put you in, Street Modified but would still be a lot of fun.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by dwx

Honestly I don't know if it would be great for autocross due to the unpredictable power delivery. If you had the second recharger and could get on and off throttle quickly without much difference in power delivery thats a different story. It also doesn't make enough power for a car to be competitive in the autox class it would put you in, Street Modified but would still be a lot of fun.

Not autocross but @Thatruth2001 30 minute track sessions are insightful here.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...postcount=1750

[fenton]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

Doing the math in my head and assuming "full bolt-ons" would include headers, once you add it all up, you might as well just get one of the entry level turbo kits.
To me, this is for owners that don't want to do a lot of messing with their cars. Simple installation that almost drops in and relatively low cost. Start adding on all that other stuff and you just lost the "economical" part that is so much of the appeal.

The way i see it most people dont have the money for all things at once. I would say if you do have 5-6k sitting around typical FI is the best option.

For those others you can toss this on, maybe next year you get a header and retune and the following year you get e85 or something else and soon you are at 230-240hp.

Tonnes of ways of going about it if you think about it.

[Drift-Office]

Originally Posted by industrial

Felt this plot was missing from the conversation. The purple line is taken from a previous thread with full bolt ons and a tune. Pretty interesting setup. Phantom setup reminds me of a tiny turbo setup like in the old vw 1.8t compared to a full bolt on setup which is more like a honda vtec plot.

Urm, that was coming. You kinda beat me to the punch there. I wanted people to understand the ramifications of the system first before posting it up but since you've posted it up already...



Either way, as you can see, the Phantom generates much awesome down below.

Originally Posted by dwx

Honestly I don't know if it would be great for autocross due to the unpredictable power delivery. If you had the second recharger and could get on and off throttle quickly without much difference in power delivery thats a different story. It also doesn't make enough power for a car to be competitive in the autox class it would put you in, Street Modified but would still be a lot of fun.

See - that's the thing. It's not unpredictable, but yes, you'll have to adapt your driving style. When I said it's good for Auto-X, it's more for the portions of the course where you're forced to slow down considerably and subsequently need to pull yourself away from that cone / clipping point. By the time you hit the next corner / turn, the battery should have been adequately charged and yes, I think that would be a lot of fun.

Originally Posted by fenton

For those others you can toss this on, maybe next year you get a header and retune and the following year you get e85 or something else and soon you are at 230-240hp.

That's assuming that headers would get you better results in an FI environment yes?




Regards!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

[fenton]

Originally Posted by Drift-Office

That's assuming that headers would get you better results in an FI environment yes?

Regards!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

Oh yes. Time will tell. I know we are all hoping for it, if anything it isnt going to hurt anything.

Thanks again for the time you put towards tuning this.

Did you find it difficult to tune?

[bfrank1972]

I'm thinking next on the bang-for-buck list will be tune this thing for E85 (or even better, flex fuel setup).

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by fenton

The way i see it most people dont have the money for all things at once. I would say if you do have 5-6k sitting around typical FI is the best option.

For those others you can toss this on, maybe next year you get a header and retune and the following year you get e85 or something else and soon you are at 230-240hp.

Tonnes of ways of going about it if you think about it.

[Drift-Office]

Originally Posted by fenton

Oh yes. Time will tell. I know we are all hoping for it, if anything it isnt going to hurt anything.

You might be surprised. More on this, later. I've already posted evidence contrary to this, but like most people on the forum, they haven't noticed yet.

Originally Posted by fenton

Thanks again for the time you put towards tuning this. Did you find it difficult to tune?

We had fun - Jason was accommodating (though understandably excited!) and we were intrigued. Difficult to tune? Not really - we just had to decide which calibration to use as a base point first.

Cheers!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

[mid_life_crisis]

Originally Posted by Drift-Office

That's assuming that headers would get you better results in an FI environment yes?

Of course they will, but they need to be properly designed for the FI system. You can't bolt on a set of headers designed for an NA vehicle and expect the car to show improvement. The real problem is that you can't tune around incorrectly matched headers. They will be fighting your efforts the whole time.
For mild boost (electrocharger anyone?) I would expect that the stock system with its narrow tubing would work quite well, keeping the exhaust velocity up and enhancing scavenging. You might see an improvement with high flow cats but the rest of the exhaust should be fine.

[sw20kosh]

From the evidence posted by FA20club... their header works beautifully with the vortech supercharger at least. One would hope that that header would work good with other types of Superchargers!

[Razz]

Very good gains. Easy install. If price is right, very good kit.

A very good HP to weight Ratio.

I've seen a few RX8's with 205 to 220 without boost.

This kit would put it in line with one of those down the straight.