FA20CLUB 4-1 Modular Header.....Turbo Manifold DYNO TESTED

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by BryanGT

I'm doing my research, and I don't actually doubt that I could replicate his results (if I had reasonable access to E85). He definitely does appear to be a good tuner.

You need to take some Ritalin or something to calm down....


You either buy the Header or not. No need for this BS.... The Header was tested as it was tested. You don't like the testing and/or numbers buy a different one and MOVE ON.

[FR-S Matt]

I think I want FA20club to tune my car after that sig change... lol. A+ Tony!

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by FR-S Matt

I think I want FA20club to tune my car after that sig change... lol. A+ Tony!

LMAO!!

[FR-S Matt]

Originally Posted by chiefshayan

All is fair in marketing. Hope to be working with the FA20Club team very soon! Great website and great products.

Perrin speaks of double digit horsepower gains with their full exhaust but look at this dyno where they only gained 1hp (dyno at 15:40)!

This is the dyno I was speaking of. This just goes to show that the exhaust alone doesn't do much for you, but when combined with a tune and the change of flow of the exhaust, it provides a smoother route for the flow, which in return increases overall hp and tq.

Lesson to be learned from all this? Header + Exhaust + Tune + FA20club = win. Oh, and I guess E85 too, but 93 octane tunes kick ass too.

[Nightbringer]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

You need to take some Ritalin or something to calm down....

ROFL. I was afraid this thread would devolve into negativity. Pleased with how Tony responded to it, and the above definitely cheered me up haha.

[FastLane1000]

Sitting here watching street outlaws and reading this stuff. I'm not sure which is better entertainment. I have to say it too. Toni has handled it well. I'm very happy with my fa20club header and tune.

[phloozy]

He handled it well, got my business back. I'm easy

[BryanGT]

Thanks for fixing up your product information. It most likely will lead you to happier customers in the future.

[Nightbringer]

Originally Posted by phloozy

He handled it well, got my business back. I'm easy

Exactly. Good showing of character is important though.

[campy]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

You need to take some Ritalin or something to calm down....


You either buy the Header or not. No need for this BS.... The Header was tested as it was tested. You don't like the testing and/or numbers buy a different one and MOVE ON.

I can understand the issue he has with the advertising. The +29hp +35tq numbers are posted everywhere: on FA20club.com's signature, on their website, even on other FRS parts websites (I don't want to drag other companies/people into this mess). The problem is that on none of those places is it mentioned that you need a full exhaust + custom tune to get those results. It's not necessarily false advertising, because yes, the header can be used in conjunction with other aftermarket parts in order to achieve those hp/tq numbers, but it's still misleading.

It's like when you see ads for those diet pills that say "lose 20 pounds in a week!", then in small text it says "when used with diet and exercise".

I don't want to sound like I'm hopping aboard the fa20club hate train, because I'm not. I'm considering going turbo and the fa20club kit is in the #1 spot. I just always had a gripe with how this particular header was advertised. I think fa20club makes good parts, I just don't think they have good business and advertising practices, and I mean that in the most respectful way. They are a reputable tuning house, but I think they have a lot to learn as a business. Which is a lesson they could take from FT86SpeedFactory and Rev Works, for example.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by campy

I can understand the issue he has with the advertising. The +29hp +35tq numbers are posted everywhere: on FA20club.com's signature, on their website, even on other FRS parts websites (I don't want to drag other companies/people into this mess). The problem is that on none of those places is it mentioned that you need a full exhaust + custom tune to get those results. It's not necessarily false advertising, because yes, the header can be used in conjunction with other aftermarket parts in order to achieve those hp/tq numbers, but it's still misleading.

At least on his signature, it CLEARLY states E85..... If someone is looking for numbers, and doesn't understand that to run E85 you NEED a tune, that peson should not need be looking for this type of mod. It's kind of obvious that from a single header with no tune you are going to get those gains. It has been proven before by every manufacturer. Header with gains=Header +tune...

[campy]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

At least on his signature, it CLEARLY states E85..... If someone is looking for numbers, and doesn't understand that to run E85 you NEED a tune, that peson should not need be looking for this type of mod. It's kind of obvious that from a single header with no tune you are going to get those gains. It has been proven before by every manufacturer. Header with gains=Header +tune...

He actually just changed it recently:

Originally Posted by FA20Club.com

according to your argument is i should change my sig to state e85 well then done!

I'm happy with this. And I just checked one of the websites selling the header, and they changed the description to "adds up to 29hp 35tq", which I'm also happy with.

I understand the importance of research, but the way the ad was originally worded seemed to imply that with the header alone, you would be getting those numbers, and that seemed dishonest to me.

[BryanGT]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

You need to take some Ritalin or something to calm down....


You either buy the Header or not. No need for this BS.... The Header was tested as it was tested. You don't like the testing and/or numbers buy a different one and MOVE ON.

I never questioned his mechanical prowess, I only wanted clearer information, and then I stumbled on some... misleading marketing. And very much to Toni's credit he understood my point and made appropriate changes to his marketing material. I very much appreciate him doing that and I think he deserves positive attention for his contribution to FT86 platform.

So were my comments BS and do I need Ritalin? Well, I mean, if you want this forum to be a love-fest where nobody ever questions a vendor then I guess that's your call because you're the mod.

I personally like to stand up for my rights as a customer. If enough people do it then vendors will be incentivized to do their business with transparency and integrity. If we let one vendor misrepresent their products then other vendors will have to start doing it just to compete.

And once again, thank you to Toni for hearing my point and fixing things up.

[Scalzo]

Just to say I was one who bought the headers in the first batch produced and I knew that to get those gains you had to be on e85 ,tuned, full exhaust and intake to achieve that. It was worded differently but I dont know why were still going on about this....

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