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Forced Induction Turbo, Supercharger, Methanol, Nitrous


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Old 07-24-2014, 12:36 PM   #43
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Thread should say I installed something wrong and blew my motor...

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Originally Posted by jamesm View Post
Overboost fuel cut would've saved it. I never go WOT on a turbo car without one. Learned that lesson the first time mine blew off, and it's saved a few motors since.
Actually over-boost FUEL CUT will help further the problem. If your solely relying on that to save a motor, you might have more lessons coming your way.

The fuel cut on these cars is overly aggressive. When the car over shoots boost, which creates a high cylinder pressure in it's own then suddenly CUTS FUEL to "save" the motor the cylinder pressure spikes even higher. It's basically one big detonation.

So while it can save you sometimes, on higher boost applications with the shitty cast piston and crappy little rods it can also hinder as well. This is even the case with the extra custom maps I setup to soften the FUEL CUT..

@nelsmar you care to comment on the aggressive overboost? I know we had a conversation about it.


You know what would have saved this motor ultimately? Following the instructions that came with the waste-gate and using loctite on the fittings. This way no one would be pointing fingers and Kai would have a running car still. Like I told Kai elsewhere if this was a shop error, I would be the first one who makes sure the shop pays for the mistake. Unfortunately Kai was the installer. This won't be the first or last time someone does this, hopefully a few people see it and learn from it though.

A little off topic but....
You guys and your tuner/tuning witch hunts make me laugh. A wheel could fall off someone's car and there will always be one guy asking who tuned it and claiming maybe it's the tuners fault.
For the amount of people who think they know every thing on these boards, I see a lot of guys that don't seem to realize that your double and tripling the stock Hp on these cars. Shit will break, it will cost you money.
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Old 07-24-2014, 12:36 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by blackhawkdown View Post
So why are we fi these cars instead of buying a wrx, sti, genesis 2.0t, 370z, 335i, Ore any turbo car stock, worth factory warranty? So glad I'm gonna stay NA
Same story, different platform.

Everyone wanted to swap to a SR in a S13/14, and make "easy" boost. The part about it being "easy" is that the manufacturer (Nissan) already did the bulk of R&D on the engine, so there's a better starting point.

Those wanting to boost their stock KA24 engines could achieve factory-like levels of reliability, but that involved proper tuning (and proper install of parts). This got expensive real quick...

The chips fall the same way... install needs to be correct, tuning needs to be correct. Just because you buy a factory turbocharged car doesn't mean you will end up better, it just means a larger company has done the R&D and backs it up with a warranty because of the more extensive testing.

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Old 07-24-2014, 12:40 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mav1178 View Post
Same story, different platform.

Everyone wanted to swap to a SR in a S13/14, and make "easy" boost. The part about it being "easy" is that the manufacturer (Nissan) already did the bulk of R&D on the engine, so there's a better starting point.

Those wanting to boost their stock KA24 engines could achieve factory-like levels of reliability, but that involved proper tuning (and proper install of parts). This got expensive real quick...

The chips fall the same way... install needs to be correct, tuning needs to be correct. Just because you buy a factory turbocharged car doesn't mean you will end up better, it just means a larger company has done the R&D and backs it up with a warranty because of the more extensive testing.

-alex
This car wasnt made for fi. remember, pure handling delight.
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saying they wanted to add weight to improve handling is like saying people wear condoms to improve sex.
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Old 07-24-2014, 12:41 PM   #46
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so my motor blew up on dyno today jdl kit gtx3071

Missed some stuff
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Old 07-24-2014, 12:58 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhawkdown View Post
So why are we fi these cars instead of buying a wrx, sti, genesis 2.0t, 370z, 335i, Ore any turbo car stock, worth factory warranty? So glad I'm gonna stay NA
Because if done right and tuned right there is no issue? Fear of unknown leaves many with no knowledge...obviously you read and bleed the negatives but if you make notes all those that have had motors blow and major problems come down to install or bad tune...there are tons of boosted folks here with ZERO issues actually and many with high mileage. It's about doing it right day one, educating yourself and you'll be fine. Don't want boost? That's fine then go ride in one that is you'll hate driving your non boosted one after it's "that" noticeable especially if you drive in any amount of elevation changes.
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Old 07-24-2014, 12:59 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by ecko04 View Post
Where was the overboost protection? If it failed, why?
There's more to it then that read PMs post...
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Old 07-24-2014, 01:06 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhawkdown View Post
This car wasnt made for fi. remember, pure handling delight.
How many boosted FRS/BRZs have you driven in and where? Street, track, mountains???
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Old 07-24-2014, 01:07 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhawkdown View Post
This car wasnt made for fi. remember, pure handling delight.
So you can't have FI and have it handle, hmmmmm....... I think there are a few people that would disagree with you on that including myself.
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Old 07-24-2014, 01:51 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OICU812 View Post
Because if done right and tuned right there is no issue? Fear of unknown leaves many with no knowledge...obviously you read and bleed the negatives but if you make notes all those that have had motors blow and major problems come down to install or bad tune...there are tons of boosted folks here with ZERO issues actually and many with high mileage. It's about doing it right day one, educating yourself and you'll be fine. Don't want boost? That's fine then go ride in one that is you'll hate driving your non boosted one after it's "that" noticeable especially if you drive in any amount of elevation changes.
I have a 2012 wrx. Boost isnt all that, nice to have when passing other cars on the highway.
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saying they wanted to add weight to improve handling is like saying people wear condoms to improve sex.
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Old 07-24-2014, 02:12 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhawkdown View Post
So why are we fi these cars instead of buying a wrx, sti, genesis 2.0t, 370z, 335i, Ore any turbo car stock, worth factory warranty? So glad I'm gonna stay NA
24K+ on my Innovate SC / Delicious tune, 58,800+ total with tons of autox days.
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Old 07-24-2014, 04:46 PM   #53
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I'm not taking sides here as i know more than anyone motors let go perhaps a lot more often than what people see or read online...It's part of the game and anyone wanting to play should be prepared.

I've personally lost a motor before due to a melted wastegate line, it was 100% my fault and a last minute hack job to get on the dyno at 2am to make an event while waiting on AN lines to show up the next day. However i've never seen these fittings or plugs back out or completely fall out. I've also never used locktight nor seen anything in Tial's instructions (I just opened a few MVS and MVR gates here at the shop to check) to do so on anything other than the water fittings, which makes sense for water based on the thread used. I've usually found because of the difference in materials in the gate vs. the fitting the fittings are usually tighter and harder to get out over time due to expansion/heat cycles, etc.
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Old 07-24-2014, 05:13 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manji View Post
There's a bit of misinformation in this thread regarding some things

Whether there was an installer issue, (looks like there was) any person even mildly experienced with tuning/racing/owning know the importance of running fuel cuts when things slip into undesired parameters. ESPECIALLY overboost.

To say "fuel cut may cause a failure" is nonsense, and to use that as reasoning as to not run one falls outside what I would describe as common sense.

This isn't opinion. It's fact.

This isn't one vendor attacking another. If it's seen that way as others have suggested it will, then I don't want to continue being here if something's can't be simply discussed because one person is sensitive about it.

If you stuff up (which is putting it politely if you're tuning a car and not allowing for overboost) you need to be accountable and others warned. What if the car overboosted because of a faulty diaphragm in the ewg, and you installed it? Going to ring Tial and blame them? No. Because you as an experienced tuner know to allow for watch for these.

The sad thing for the OP, is that this company NOW KNOWS to watch for over boost.

Oh and banning jamesm for saying the thing I am right now? ****s.

If I've done anything wrong in my post, then this forum is a censored, advertorial based, money grubbing venture, under the guise of an open, informing forum.
Maybe you didn't read the thread or my post.

1. The car had over-boost protection for starters.

2. LOL at I "now know to watch for over-boost situations"?.. Who are you and what have you accomplished again? I like to think my 14yrs of tuning knowledge might qualify me as experienced... If it has boost, it has overboost safeties. I don't think I would be trusted to tune 15-1600whp boosted street cars for big name shops or 7-8 second 4-6cyls, even your 500+whp FAs like @Hawaiian and a few others if I didn't know that boost limiters need to be in place... but thank you for your opinion on what I know or dont know..

3. Your "FACT"
Do you know how cylinder pressure works? I love your "facts" of fuel cut and I loved JamesMs post about "theories".. Goes to show how much actual experience some of the tuning "gurus" around here actually have. I don't need to sit here and give you all knowing gurus a lesson in how cylinder pressure works. Fuel cut causes an abrupt SPIKE IN CYLINDER PRESSURE, on a motor that is already making high cylinder pressures from its high compression and now forced induction.

Do some research, or maybe if you do have any actually knowledge look at progressive fail safes for boost, rpm.. or full engine stall fail safes for stuff like fuel pressure drops and oil pressure in some of the standalone ecus. Fuel cut works relatively well on cars that are not running excessive cylinder pressures from high compression to start with. With that said EVEN STOCK STI/WRXS will crack ring lands from spikes in cylinder pressure like detonation from the lean condition at PeakTQ in the stock tune, hitting the rev limiter hard on the old cars ( they now use a progressive closing of the throttle in the mapping to avoid this) or from hitting the boost limiter when they boost creep. Shitty cast parts don't like spikes in cylinder pressure.


On a side note, I didn't know they banned JamesM.. I was looking forward to the arguments and I was sad to see his comments gone.


Jr
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Old 07-24-2014, 05:28 PM   #55
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I'll speak up too. This nonstop banning for people trying to inform the community is garbage. This is only hurting the community. Mods...please exercise some restraint, this type of activity will only lead to the downfall of this forum

But whats the use, I'll be gone soon (for simply pointing out facts), as well as this thread soon enough...


Guys like you take the internet way to serious. You should start some sort of forums rights support group. This way you guys can talk about how bad the forum is because they dont like your OPINIONS.. or as you call them "facts"
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Old 07-24-2014, 05:29 PM   #56
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There's a reason why @jamesm has separated himself as the clear cut best tuner for this platform. The results speak for themselves.
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