Full Blown Turbo Kit Owners Topic

[pmccut]

Originally Posted by Infamous Performance

We are installing an upgraded turbo in a BRZ now. On that kit the oil cooler lines are leaking at the fittings too. Oil sprayed from front of car to the cans underneath. This car also has the dreaded fuel vapor lines used for coolant. FAIL. Lines are melted. Coolant was leaking everywhere too. When we went to remove the banjo fitting at the turbo to pull the lines the lines completely separated. Melted rubber inside the fittings gumming them up and completely blocking flow. Another trip to XRP to buy the parts to build new lines. For anyone with an older kit, fuel vapor line CAN NOT be used with coolant. It will melt.

Oh no I just installed those fittings 2 weeks ago. I didn't see any leakage prior to making the trek down last night, but didn't check after getting here. The original lines Fullblown installed leaked oil everywhere from both sides of the fittings. I spent a few hours cleaning what I could out of the bumper, under trays, oil cooler, and radiator hoses. It was far from perfect though.

Good thing I didn't install the fiberglass DP wrap myself and ignite the car

[FullBlown]

Yes, we are aware that the earlier oil cooler fittings had issues. We have since switch suppliers and ship with fragola fittings.

If anyone has the old style fitting. Please contact us and we will send the new ones out.

[dabocx]

What kind of numbers could you see with a gtx3076 and e85? How much later would spool be compared the gtx28?

[FullBlown]

Roughly 300 rpm later and capable or 100hp more.

[RickyB]

Originally Posted by Infamous Performance

Sorry, this is not my first rodeo. I have been building turbo Subarus for over 12 years. If you dont have advance timing you dont build load and you dont meet boost target. Simple as that. If the IAM is not 1.0 you wont be making boost target. Making some boost is easy, yes. But you will not reach boost target without proper load and you wont reach proper load without some timing. If a car was making 8psi and then all the sudden makes only 3.5psi and there are no physical/mechanical issues to cause the boost drop, then it is most likely the ECM or the ECM reacting to false data from a failing sensor/wiring issue/etc. Checking the IAM is fast and easy. Remember the end user in this situation is not sitting in his car hooked up making changes to the tune in an attempt to get some boost. He is running a static map.

Load does not spool a turbo. The heat and expansion of the gasses in the exhaust manifold do.

Please don't hit me with "experience." I've been tuning cars and writing EMS software and firmware for just as many years. Either explain in terms of simple physics why several degrees of retard will prevent the turbo from spooling to 8 psi or move on to another theory.

[Infamous Performance]

Originally Posted by RickyB

Load does not spool a turbo. The heat and expansion of the gasses in the exhaust manifold do.

Please don't hit me with "experience." I've been tuning cars and writing EMS software and firmware for just as many years. Either explain in terms of simple physics why several degrees of retard will prevent the turbo from spooling to 8 psi or move on to another theory.

LOL. So with an IAM of 0 you think the car will make boost target?

Back to actually attempting to help the member solve or identify the root cuase of his problem...

The car in question does not have a boost gauge. It does not have any aftermarket gauges at all. How is the boost being read? I must assume via EcuTek logging. What parameter is being interpreted as boost? Has the IAM been verified? Has the MAP sensor voltage feedback been verified? If the car is running the speed density map has anyone verified the IAT reading? If the car is now running the blow through MAF tune and not speed density has the OEM MAP sensor been re-installed? Has anyone verified the MAF voltage to the ECM? Has the EBCS been removed and the compressor line tied directly into the wastegate? With the car apparently not having any leaks, has anyone performed any troubleshooting or testing of the electronics? Has a reputable tuner looked at any logs or data?

[RickyB]

Originally Posted by Infamous Performance

LOL. So with an IAM of 0 you think the car will make boost target?

Now you are asking a different question that has nothing to do with your original incorrect statement:

Originally Posted by Infamous Performance

If the ECM is puling timing (you mention a base map) then you wont have the load required to build boost.

Tuning a turbocharger 101:

The ability of the turbo to produce boost is proportional to the amount of expanding exhaust gas in the exhaust manifold. A certain amount of air and fuel enter the cylinder. These will produce a very specific amount of heat energy when they are ignited. If you delay the onset of ignition (by pulling timing) there will be less heat expended to turn the crank before the exhaust valve opens and the remaining heat will go into the exhaust manifold to power the turbo (make more boost). This is very obvious if you have spent any time tuning turbocharged engines. When you first start with a conservative timing map, you will see plenty of boost creep on a marginal wastegate set up. As you get a bit more aggressive and advance timing, the boost creep will stop.

To make more boost at any load point you can:

- Retard timing
- Advance the exhaust cam (start the blowdown earlier with substantial heat energy still in the cylinder
- Retard the intake cam (lower dynamic compression ratio to reduce the amount of heat energy extracted by the engine during the power stroke)
- Lean out the charge (very carefully up to a point depending on the fuel used) which increases the amount of heat produced
- Introduce ignition misses to allow raw air/fuel charge to enter and ignite directly in the exhaust manifold (don't do this without adult supervision)

All these techniques are used sparingly by knowledgeable tuners to increase spool. They are used in concert by engine management systems to implement anti-lag.

So if all that the ECU does when IAM decreases is retard timing, an IAM of 0 will produce more boost. You will be able to tell because boost will be almost instant the second you step on the throttle while acceleration is flat.

If the ECU also takes other actions as IAM decreases such as close the throttle or retard the exhaust cam, you may not build much boost.

Another reason your statement is incorrect is simply that ignition timing has nothing to do with load. Load is simply a measure of how much air enters the intake manifold. Everything you do after that in the tuning affects how much of the oxygen in that air gets used to produce torque on the crankshaft vs. heat in the exhaust manifold vs. heat in the cooling system (oil and water). It is very simple. There is nothing mystic or magical about tuning engines. You just apply some basic physics to make the most of what the customer brought to the shop.

I've taught classes on this. I've had tuners tell me they learned more from two days in my class than they did from 20 years in the field. The truth is that they really knew all this stuff already, they just didn't have the right framework to pull it all into a unified whole.

[Sterz]

Originally Posted by Infamous Performance

LOL. So with an IAM of 0 you think the car will make boost target?

Back to actually attempting to help the member solve or identify the root cuase of his problem...

The car in question does not have a boost gauge. It does not have any aftermarket gauges at all. How is the boost being read? I must assume via EcuTek logging. What parameter is being interpreted as boost? Has the IAM been verified? Has the MAP sensor voltage feedback been verified? If the car is running the speed density map has anyone verified the IAT reading? If the car is now running the blow through MAF tune and not speed density has the OEM MAP sensor been re-installed? Has anyone verified the MAF voltage to the ECM? Has the EBCS been removed and the compressor line tied directly into the wastegate? With the car apparently not having any leaks, has anyone performed any troubleshooting or testing of the electronics? Has a reputable tuner looked at any logs or data?

Mike, I'm not exactly sure why the tune was running so rough when I left the shop, when I called you and asked you if you had installed the upgraded map sensor, I threw the speed density tune back on to see if I would hit target boost. I do have a P3Cars gauge now by the way. My car is now hitting 8 psi of boost and is running smooth. I am not sure what caused it to run so poorly on the way home from the shop. Sorry for not clearing that up earlier. Now its just the oil cooler I am dealing with again.

[Sterz]

And unrelated - Anyone who is running full 3" exhaust with our kit, which exhaust pipes did you go with, and how do you like it?

[Dipstik-sportech]

I have @FullBlown s 3" single exit kit. A touch loud but I don't mind.

The Frozen North

[dabocx]

Does it include the overpipe?

[SmsAlSuwaidi]

Originally Posted by dabocx

Does it include the overpipe?

Nop


Sent from my IBrick

[Reaper]

I'm running perrin overpipe with fbm 3 inch dual and like it a lot. Not too loud, no drone.

[Tansey86]

Originally Posted by Reaper

I'm running perrin overpipe with fbm 3 inch dual and like it a lot. Not too loud, no drone.

With a turbo? Videos!