Costco or Sam's club Gas really bad?

[fumanchu1]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

You're right, it has changed since the last time I read it, but the minimum is now 9% and the max is now 11%. See below.



The Top Tier website:

http://www.toptiergas.com/deposit-control/



The part that says "10.0% ± 1% by volume ethanol" means it has to have between 9% and 11% ethanol. I think the exception noted earlier has to do with making a loophole for situations where the ethanol is not available for some reason. For example, if we had an ethanol shortage, the top tier fuel marketers wouldn't suddenly lose their top tier certification just because they were selling gas with a lower percentage ethanol.

FYI, here's a thread on BITOG that quotes the prior standard I referred to earlier.

You need to read up on the definition of nominal friend as it is the keybword in what you posted. Nominal numbers are not real numbers they are a goal to attain or hope to attain

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[fumanchu1]

@extrashaky here is the mathematical definition of nominal numbers for reference:
Nominal numbers or categorical numbers are numerals used for identification only. The numerical value is irrelevant, and they do not indicate quantity, rank, or any other measurement

In other words the 10% -+1% nominal percentage is not a real percentage and is not used as a measurement or requirement simply a stated figure that would be beneficial to attain but in no way required or enforced.

Laws and policies are very big on small nuances as they affect the statement put forth greatly. Now had the word nominal been left out than I would have agreed with your statement but it being nominal means it holds no real value meaning 0% ethanol fuel is still considered as top tier gas according to their statement. see how they did not put nominal for the olefins and aromatics? because these are real values/requirements to obtain top tier gas ratings whereas the nominal amount is not a definite requirement.

[mav1178]

... and we spend countless hours debating on what gas causes crickets, when no one truly knows who their local supplier is.

Joy.

-alex

[MokSpeed]

Originally Posted by B$

There is no "bad gas." Costco gas is perfectly fine.

There is always "better" gas. With high compression engines, one should try to feed it the best fuel possible especially if you seek longevity.

[fumanchu1]

^So jet fuel

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by fumanchu1

You need to read up on the definition of nominal friend as it is the keybword in what you posted. Nominal numbers are not real numbers they are a goal to attain or hope to attain

Originally Posted by fumanchu1

@extrashaky here is the mathematical definition of nominal numbers for reference:
Nominal numbers or categorical numbers are numerals used for identification only. The numerical value is irrelevant, and they do not indicate quantity, rank, or any other measurement

I think maybe you need to re-read your own definition of nominal numbers. A nominal number is something like a identification number or an arbitrary position in a list: the third person in line being referred to as #3, a social security number, a product number, etc. A nominal number takes the place of a name and refers to a discrete item. It's stripped of its numerical value, in that you can't add the third and sixth people in line together to get the ninth person, and you can't average social security numbers and get a meaningful result.

That's not how the word is being used here. Here nominal is being used to refer to the fact that the percentage is estimated by the tests described in ASTM D 4815 or D 5845 and not by volume added to volume. The fact that it's being tested to come to that number means the number has numerical value, which is not consistent with the definition you misused above.

Originally Posted by fumanchu1

Laws and policies are very big on small nuances as they affect the statement put forth greatly.

Quite so. So let's revisit the language of the standard:

The base fuel shall have the following specific properties after the addition of ethanol:

Contain nominally 10.0% ± 1% by volume ethanol as measured by ASTM D 4815 or D 5845.

Notice that it says "shall have," not "should have" or "may have." In legal language, the word shall usually means "must." According to the standard, then, a top tier fuel must contain 9% to 11% ethanol, nominally measured by the prescribed tests rather than determined by volume.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by fumanchu1

^So jet fuel

Technically speaking jet fuel is actually a lower grade then gasoline. Jet fuels are kerosene or kerosene/naphtha based.
Now avgas is a different matter and maybe what you meant.

[fumanchu1]

Here's the thing, the definition you attribute to it nominal in this case is not one recognized by any respected dictionary to my knowledge. Here is all the definitions according to Merriam-Webster:

: of, relating to, or being a noun or a word or expression taking a noun construction
2
a : of, relating to, or constituting a name
b : bearing the name of a person

3
a : existing or being something in name or form only <nominal head of his party>
b : of, being, or relating to a designated or theoretical size that may vary from the actual : approximate <the pipe's nominal size>
c : trifling, insignificant <his involvement was nominal> <charged only nominal rent>

4
of a rate of interest
a : equal to the annual rate of simple interest that would obtain if interest were not compounded when in fact it is compounded and paid for periods of less than a year
b : equal to the percentage by which a repaid loan exceeds the principal borrowed with no adjustment made for inflation

5
: being according to plan : satisfactory <everything was nominal during the launch>
— nom·i·nal·ly adverb

Don't see the definition you try to attribute to the word nominal in there.

here's another on nominal numbers: "Nominal number" can be broadly defined as "any numeral used for identification, however it was assigned", or narrowly as "a numeral with no information other than identification".

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by gtslow

Costco is great for 2 reason:

1. The Price
2. You know with the amount of people going through the gas is fresh

Originally Posted by Teseo

Fill the tank in busy gas station so gasoline is fresh, right?

The customer volume of a station isn't necessarily an indicator of how fresh the gas is, because you don't know how long that fuel may have been stored somewhere before coming to that station. For example, suppose some gas had been sitting in a storage tank for a year before Murphy bought it at a discount and shipped it to your local Sam's Club. Maybe they just refilled the ground tanks yesterday, but not with fresh gas.

It's probably not common, but it does happen.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by fumanchu1

Don't see the definition you try to attribute to the word nominal in there.

Keep looking.

[fumanchu1]

I agree with the shall portion (but it only says shall contain ethanol) and does not define a quantity what you did was add the nominally sentence after the shall contain sentence which is not how it is represented in the text (it's in a different paragraph altogether).

Here if you search ASTM D4806(which it states top tier fuel must comply with) this is their definition:
This specification covers nominally anhydrous denatured fuel ethanol intended to be blended with unleaded or leaded gasolines at 1 to 10 volume % for use as automotive spark-ignition engine fuel covered by Specification D4814. The significance of this specification is shown in Appendix X1.

see how that now says 1-10% volume meaning that their reference to nominal was only as an identifier and does not require 10% at a 1% error margin. Nominal in this case was used as a wanted/hope for number rather than a requirement (although they do need minimum 1% and max 10%)

Source:http://www.astm.org/Standards/D4806.htm

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

words

Originally Posted by fumanchu1

words

Basically, if we take one version of "nominal": fuel will have 10% ethanol, we're all going to farm crickets.

Take the other version of "nominal", and you have no idea what kind of gas we are getting.





And we are still debating on what constitutes "poor gasoline"...

-alex

[fumanchu1]

@extrashaky you have not brought anything to support your position on the word's definition only hearsay and what you think it means, I have brought you several well respected definitions (well respected dictionaries I mean) as well the the actual definition of the ASTM D4806 which the nominal was referring to. That ASTM clearly states between 1%-10% so unless you can provide valid sources for your argument (meaning you would know more about this than the people who wrote it) then you are wrong. Sorry to burst your bubble, you can rest knowing that ignorance is bliss so as long as you learn and correct you are fine if you refuse to do so then at this point it is no longer ignorance as you have the knowledge to know better but choose not too and that would make you... at that point)

[fumanchu1]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Basically, if we take one version of "nominal": fuel will have 10% ethanol, we're all going to farm crickets.

Take the other version of "nominal", and you have no idea what kind of gas we are getting.





And we are still debating on what constitutes "poor gasoline"...

-alex

how can we determine what constitutes poor gasoline if the definition of what makes good gas is not clear to all parties in the discussion. We first need to attain a level footing of knowledge of the terms and definitions before we can truly discuss and make an educated decision, come to a logical conclusion.