follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Speed By Design
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Scion FR-S Forum | Subaru BRZ Forum | Toyota 86 GT 86 Forum | AS1 Forum - FT86CLUB > Off-Topic Discussions > Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions

Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions Discuss all other cars and automotive news here.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-11-2019, 01:09 AM   #1
Captain Snooze
Because compromise
 
Captain Snooze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Drives: Red Herring
Location: australia
Posts: 5,264
Thanks: 2,482
Thanked 4,706 Times in 2,258 Posts
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Please explain Lane Departure Warning to me

I cannot think of a situation where such a "safety" feature is superior to good driving habits. That is, being aware of where one's car is on the road and watching where one is going. I'm guessing its benefit is allowing one to read, watch a movie or text for longer while barreling down the freeway.


Risk compensation anybody?
__________________
My car is completely stock except for all the mods.

Captain Snooze is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Captain Snooze For This Useful Post:
p1l0t (12-12-2019)
Old 12-11-2019, 01:36 AM   #2
soundman98
Boost is Whack. N/A4LYFE
 
soundman98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Drives: '14 brz limited
Location: chicagolandia
Posts: 2,807
Thanks: 5,247
Thanked 2,222 Times in 1,287 Posts
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
The theory is crash prevention. The reality is we need a system- wide reset at full level 5 autonomy, but due to a number issues everywhere, it's just not fully feasible.

From the socioeconomic aspects of forcing everyone to abandon their cars and buy new ones, as well as the aspect of who really owns what-do we really need to own the vehicle anymore if it's just a pod? And if not, do we really need as many different brands of pod that currently exist?

There's also a number of legal hurdles currently dealing with "the trolley problem" of computer systems making life and death decisions.

By giving people level 2, 3, or 4 autonomy, automakers entirely sidestep all of the above problems, while also making the driver the responsible party, all while claiming 'progress' at the expense of driver engagement.

I'm not fully convinced i will see level 5 autonomy within my lifespan, simply due to the legal hurdles that are currently solved by making the driver the responsible party.

Ex: if a single 15 year old GM level 5 car has a software glitch and drives through a school, GM would be on the hook for significant damages. Multiply that risk by GM producing hundreds of thousands vehicles every year, and that is a huge liability. This is a scenario where i could more realistically see mfg's making vehicles a subscription or lease format, where vehicle ownership goes away so the mfg has better risk mitigation by only using 1-2 year old models throughout their available fleet.
soundman98 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to soundman98 For This Useful Post:
Atmo (12-11-2019), BlueWhelan (12-14-2019), korhun (12-12-2019), Spuds (12-11-2019), StraightOuttaCanadaEh (12-13-2019), why? (12-11-2019)
Old 12-11-2019, 01:47 AM   #3
Sapphireho
Truly pasture happy
 
Sapphireho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Drives: '15 JRSC twin, '06 Exige, '77 911s
Location: Private Idaho
Posts: 7,793
Thanks: 3,343
Thanked 7,913 Times in 4,342 Posts
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I thought it just beeped if you went out of your lane?
Sapphireho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2019, 02:31 AM   #4
Captain Snooze
Because compromise
 
Captain Snooze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Drives: Red Herring
Location: australia
Posts: 5,264
Thanks: 2,482
Thanked 4,706 Times in 2,258 Posts
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapphireho View Post
I thought it just beeped if you went out of your lane?
I discovered lane assist from this clip. Go to 8.00. I have no idea how other cars with lane assist behave.

__________________
My car is completely stock except for all the mods.

Captain Snooze is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Captain Snooze For This Useful Post:
korhun (12-12-2019)
Old 12-11-2019, 03:03 AM   #5
Atmo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Drives: TBA
Location: FL350
Posts: 377
Thanks: 168
Thanked 272 Times in 169 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapphireho View Post
I thought it just beeped if you went out of your lane?
Some do, others don't depending on manufacturer, model and trim level within models. AFAIK, none are considered fully autonomous except possibly Tesla and Toyota for example goes to great pains to make it clear in the fine print to not call them for failing to drive safely and attentively.

Toyota has Lane Departure Alert either with or without Steering Assist that reads visible lane markers, provides visual and audible alerts and steering force when lane departure is detected.

Toyota also has Lane Tracing Assist that works about the same when Dynamic Radar Cruise Control is engaged and shakes the steering wheel too.

Friends who have one of the Toyota systems hate them, saying it induces constant weaving even on a straight, flat Interstate and is worse on curvy mountain roads.

The sensitivity can be adjusted and disabled completely but I wonder how long before drivers leaving the pavement and crashing will be blamed for not having all safety nannies engaged?

Like soundman98 in effect said and I agree, the biggest hurdle to autonomous deployment in the US (when it's ready for prime time) is lawyers. Anyone and everyone will pay.
Atmo is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Atmo For This Useful Post:
Captain Snooze (12-11-2019), soundman98 (12-13-2019), why? (12-11-2019)
Old 12-11-2019, 07:45 AM   #6
why?
Only happy when it rains.
 
why?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Drives: series.blue
Location: Harnett county NC
Posts: 1,733
Thanks: 4,277
Thanked 985 Times in 610 Posts
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Snooze View Post
I discovered lane assist from this clip. Go to 8.00. I have no idea how other cars with lane assist behave.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utrpyyaUWtg
That's not just lane assist, that is almost autonomous for a few seconds.

In reality they are using their current cars to beta test all these functions, while using them to jack up current car prices. The only good one is adaptive cruise control, because it actually provides a useful benefit. The rest are just a waste of weight and money.
why? is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to why? For This Useful Post:
Atmo (12-11-2019), Dadhawk (12-11-2019), fang_gt86 (12-11-2019), korhun (12-12-2019), Spuds (12-11-2019), Tcoat (12-11-2019)
Old 12-11-2019, 09:44 AM   #7
7 skulls
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Drives: 2014 scion frs
Location: Newfoundland
Posts: 130
Thanks: 142
Thanked 113 Times in 50 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Recently, I took a long drive in heavy rain and wind in a 2019 Honda Ridgline with all the lane keeping, radar cruise, etc. activated. The vehicle is quite happy to drive itself on the highway for 30-40 seconds before the algorithms decide that you have to take the wheel. Strong, gusty winds that require constant corrections in an analog vehicle aren't even noticed as the system reacts faster than I could. Momentary hydroplaning resulted in some beeping and a slight slowdown as the cruise kicked off. I was very impressed with the complete system. However...
The vehicle has no soul. IMO, an autonomous or semi-autonomous vehicle is like a robot dog. Sure it will do all the things a bio dog will do with speed and efficiency but it never tug on its leash or piss on your floor or chase the neighbours cat. I think that is what is so special about our cars and others like them. It shits on your lawn, chews up your shoes and scares the mailman but just when you have had enough, it is waiting there by the door, happy puppy, ready to see what is around the next bend.
7 skulls is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to 7 skulls For This Useful Post:
Atmo (12-11-2019), Dadhawk (12-11-2019), dhuang (12-11-2019), korhun (12-12-2019), soundman98 (12-13-2019), Spuds (12-11-2019), Tcoat (12-11-2019)
Old 12-11-2019, 11:03 AM   #8
Tcoat
He who smelt it...
 
Tcoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Drives: 14 FRS Hot Lava
Location: London, Ont
Posts: 57,181
Thanks: 50,761
Thanked 80,467 Times in 36,249 Posts
Mentioned: 2085 Post(s)
Tagged: 49 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Snooze View Post
I cannot think of a situation where such a "safety" feature is superior to good driving habits. That is, being aware of where one's car is on the road and watching where one is going. I'm guessing its benefit is allowing one to read, watch a movie or text for longer while barreling down the freeway.


Risk compensation anybody?
It isn't a replacement to good driving habits. It is however an effective way of dealing with those that do not have those habits. It is a sad commentary to say that such things are needed but this is the real world and far too many people have bad habits and no interest in correcting them so the auto makers have to address it.
The whole safety systems built into new cars (lane departure, blind spot monitoring, collision avoidance, etc) are just there because so many actually need such prompts. I remember all the old guys freaking out when antilock brakes came out since "people don't need the car to control braking if they just followed at the right distance".
An argument could be made that some of the features are actually sort of handy even if you are paying attention. I LOVE the adaptive cruise in the wife's car for long trips even though I am still watching the road. The back up movement sensor and blind spot monitoring are also great assists to even a conscientious driver. The one thing that I can not stand and leads me to call the Subaru Eyesight system (and the other makes equivalent) the "Distracted Driving" package is that stupid bloody beep that tells you the car in front has started to move from a stop! The ONLY purpose it can possibly serve is if you are busy doing something else when stopped in traffic and are paying so little attention to what is going on you need to be told when traffic is moving again.
__________________
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar, because Racecar.
Tcoat is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Tcoat For This Useful Post:
Atmo (12-11-2019), bfrank1972 (12-11-2019), Dadhawk (12-11-2019), soundman98 (12-13-2019), why? (12-12-2019)
Old 12-11-2019, 11:14 AM   #9
Dadhawk
1st86 Driver!
 
Dadhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Drives: "Olivia" my Firestorm 6AT FR-S
Location: Powder Springs, GA
Posts: 12,801
Thanks: 22,802
Thanked 12,579 Times in 6,174 Posts
Mentioned: 118 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post
It isn't a replacement to good driving habits. It is however an effective way of dealing with those that do not have those habits. It is a sad commentary to say that such things are needed but this is the real world and far too many people have bad habits and no interest in correcting them so the auto makers have to address it.
It's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy though. The more we don't have to pay attention the less we will, driving to where we eventually need systems where we don't have to pay attention at all.

Even GPS is an example of that. I catch myself no longer paying much attention to street signs, etc when going somewhere and the GPS is on. I just blindly drive straight until the GPS tells me otherwise. I used to have much more directional awareness when driving.

That said, within my own family I know several people that would be much safer in a close-to autonomous car.
__________________

Visit my Owner's Journal where I wax philosophic on all things FR-S
Post your 86 or see others in front of a(n) (in)famous landmark.
What fits in your 86? Show us the "Junk In Your Trunk".
Dadhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Dadhawk For This Useful Post:
Atmo (12-11-2019), bfrank1972 (12-11-2019), gravitylover (12-11-2019), soundman98 (12-13-2019), Spuds (12-11-2019), Tcoat (12-11-2019), Ultramaroon (12-14-2019), why? (12-12-2019)
Old 12-11-2019, 11:21 AM   #10
Tcoat
He who smelt it...
 
Tcoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Drives: 14 FRS Hot Lava
Location: London, Ont
Posts: 57,181
Thanks: 50,761
Thanked 80,467 Times in 36,249 Posts
Mentioned: 2085 Post(s)
Tagged: 49 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadhawk View Post
It's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy though. The more we don't have to pay attention the less we will, driving to where we eventually need systems where we don't have to pay attention at all.

Even GPS is an example of that. I catch myself no longer paying much attention to street signs, etc when going somewhere and the GPS is on. I just blindly drive straight until the GPS tells me otherwise. I used to have much more directional awareness when driving.

That said, within my own family I know several people that would be much safer in a close-to autonomous car.
Oh no doubt! Unfortunately for those of us that enjoy the act of driving the vast majority of the public does not share that pleasure. To those people that consider driving a chore these things are just another tool to be used to lighten the burden. People on forums such as this will never understand that perspective any more than the drivers that would rather have the car do all the work would understand ours.
__________________
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar, because Racecar.
Tcoat is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Tcoat For This Useful Post:
Atmo (12-11-2019), Dadhawk (12-11-2019), soundman98 (12-13-2019), Ultramaroon (12-14-2019)
Old 12-11-2019, 12:39 PM   #11
Atmo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Drives: TBA
Location: FL350
Posts: 377
Thanks: 168
Thanked 272 Times in 169 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by why? View Post
That's not just lane assist, that is almost autonomous for a few seconds.


In reality they are using their current cars to beta test all these functions, while using them to jack up current car prices. The only good one is adaptive cruise control, because it actually provides a useful benefit. The rest are just a waste of weight and money.
All these nannies are looking more political than practical to me. Somewhere along the line product planners might have decided that this stuff will be mandated so let's get ahead of the curve and out-autonomy the other brands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7 skulls View Post
IMO, an autonomous or semi-autonomous vehicle is like a robot dog. Sure it will do all the things a bio dog will do with speed and efficiency but it never tug on its leash or piss on your floor or chase the neighbours cat. I think that is what is so special about our cars and others like them. It shits on your lawn, chews up your shoes and scares the mailman but just when you have had enough, it is waiting there by the door, happy puppy, ready to see what is around the next bend.
That could be an ad for dating sites vs. sex dolls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post
Oh no doubt! Unfortunately for those of us that enjoy the act of driving the vast majority of the public does not share that pleasure. To those people that consider driving a chore these things are just another tool to be used to lighten the burden. People on forums such as this will never understand that perspective any more than the drivers that would rather have the car do all the work would understand ours.

And some insufferable Tesla cultists like my attorney take it to another level since he says he generates income consulting with clients while "driving".
Atmo is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Atmo For This Useful Post:
Spuds (12-11-2019), Tcoat (12-11-2019), why? (12-12-2019)
Old 12-11-2019, 12:43 PM   #12
Tcoat
He who smelt it...
 
Tcoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Drives: 14 FRS Hot Lava
Location: London, Ont
Posts: 57,181
Thanks: 50,761
Thanked 80,467 Times in 36,249 Posts
Mentioned: 2085 Post(s)
Tagged: 49 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atmo View Post
All these nannies are looking more political than practical to me. Somewhere along the line product planners might have decided that this stuff will be mandated so let's get ahead of the curve and out-autonomy the other brands.



That could be an ad for dating sites vs. sex dolls.




And some insufferable Tesla cultists like my attorney take it to another level since he says he generates income consulting with clients while "driving".
Although there are certainly some politics behind them as I said before it is likely that 80% to 90% of the drivers out there actually WANT and enjoy these things. I must confess that I wouldn't mind a couple of the features myself. As long as I can turn them on and off depending on the driving I am doing! When (not if) they become mandatory and can not be turned off is when we know we have reached the true political aspect.
__________________
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar, because Racecar.
Tcoat is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Tcoat For This Useful Post:
Atmo (12-11-2019), soundman98 (12-13-2019), why? (12-12-2019)
Old 12-11-2019, 01:03 PM   #13
Atmo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Drives: TBA
Location: FL350
Posts: 377
Thanks: 168
Thanked 272 Times in 169 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post
Although there are certainly some politics behind them as I said before it is likely that 80% to 90% of the drivers out there actually WANT and enjoy these things. I must confess that I wouldn't mind a couple of the features myself. As long as I can turn them on and off depending on the driving I am doing! When (not if) they become mandatory and can not be turned off is when we know we have reached the true political aspect.
I'm with you and fight the urge to let the car make decisions for me. Well, maybe a couple, the same features you like, (blind spot monitor, rear cross traffic alert with braking, dynamic radar cruise control, all things I used to mock) but now rely on.

@Dadhawk is spot on, my biggest concern is that my situational awareness may decline.

Toyota CEO Jim Lentz said during an interview earlier this year that Toyota won't be going full autonomous in the US over liability concerns.
Atmo is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Atmo For This Useful Post:
Dadhawk (12-11-2019)
Old 12-11-2019, 01:21 PM   #14
ls1ac
Senior Member
 
ls1ac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Drives: BRZ, Noble M400, AC-LS7,1956 AC
Location: Wi/Fl
Posts: 546
Thanks: 137
Thanked 363 Times in 211 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
The NTSB has started a few studies of lack of driver situational awareness. For drivers that learn with the assists.
The argument is either: should learn with out, or need more to help more.
Parents generally want more to keep their children safe.
ls1ac is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ls1ac For This Useful Post:
Atmo (12-11-2019)
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Welcome Lighting/Departure Lighting for Headlights Akuma147 Cosmetic Modification (Interior/Exterior/Lighting) 0 12-01-2016 01:46 AM
Lane splitting? Packofcrows Off-Topic Lounge 79 08-15-2016 07:31 PM
Two Lane Black Top twincamRob Photos, Videos, Wallpapers, Gallery Forum 24 11-08-2012 09:30 PM
The Fast Lane Car Review of the FR-S track_warrior Photos, Videos, Wallpapers, Gallery Forum 10 05-06-2012 05:21 PM
Why I drive in the left lane. 1660 Off-Topic Lounge 11 08-03-2011 02:31 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.