FRS vs BMW e46 M3. Which to buy?

[random]

A bit off-topic, but FWIW, a Subaru dealership local to me has a 2000 BMW M5 with only ~83000 miles on it:

http://www.stevenscreeksubaru.com/us...cf32c47fb1.htm

They're asking $21,500, which definitely is on the high side. Still... it drives fantastically and is in superb condition inside and out.

[devinclfalcons]

Originally Posted by Gaiakai

Where are you finding E92 M3s for $35k? Or are you talking about the higher mileage/salvage ones?


OT
I'm actually cross-shopping these cars as well, BRZ/FR-S and the E46 M3. And right now it's so close that I'm going with a "whichever comes first" approach

And if the BRZ/FR-S had just a bit more power (250-300) it would be the only car on my short list right now. But I see the BRZ/FR-S as more of a clean canvas, like how the modern muscle cars are. They could use some improvement, and almost all the owners do just that - some do interior mods for more luxury, some add more power, or suspension work, basically they customize the car to get rid of the shortcomings the car has (for them). If/when I get my BRZ/FR-S, first thing I'm going to do is lower it (that horrible wheel gap is 4x4 territory), possibly get better brakes, and then add power. And go from there.

What I love about the M3 is that it's basically the complete package: looks, power, handling, luxury, sound, utility, aftermarket support, delicious 8000 rpm redline. And IMO that's what the Germans do best, most of the cars that go for OEM+ that I like are German cars: Z4M, E46 M3, 996/997, etc. You don't really have to do much customization for improvement because the E46 M3 is basically perfect as it is, you just have to keep it running. Not to mention it's the first RWD car I fell in love with when I "drove" it in NFS Most Wanted lol.

Compared to the BRZ/FR-S yes it is quite a bit heavier, but then again back when the BRZ didn't have my attention, I was looking at the new Mustang 5.0, Camaro SS, Evo, and a couple of other cars. The E46 M3 was one of the lightest on that list, and those were already great performing cars with more power.

This is all just IMO though.

Also keep in mind that 26k is plenty for a great condition M3, i.e. one where you won't have to worry about the really heavy maintenance for at least a year. (Fact, not just IMO)

Yes most 08 E92's are still in the 40's right now but I am hoping that when I purchase later this year (in the fall) that the 08's will be out of warranty and around the mid-30's

[Gaiakai]

Originally Posted by devinclfalcons

Yes most 08 E92's are still in the 40's right now but I am hoping that when I purchase later this year (in the fall) that the 08's will be out of warranty and around the mid-30's

I was hoping for the exact same thing just a few months ago lol. Hopefully the E92's will go down to your budget when you're ready to buy, especially with the F80/F82 coming out pretty soon. Good luck!

I haven't given up yet, same thing with the 997.1. It'll probably be another year or two before I look for those though, for insurance purposes.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

The insurance isn't THAT bad for them, unless you are young and/or have some things on your record.

[kyolml]

Well, I have both STI and E46 M3 LSB.

The brake job of $4k is a bit steep, probably doing at a BMW dealer. It's definetly an engineering acheivement, and S54 engine is a real testiment for road car engine limit. The S65 in E92 is not as radical or near the limit (shorter stroke). It's refined, luxurious, fast, has textbook FR and steering feel, (pretty good caster stock), and everything in one package. My STI might be faster and all that, but it's simpler and no where near as refined, or has the same engineering complexity in the package.

Because BMW cramped so much things into this car, a lot of things tend to break (I feel they skimmed the longevity testing to compesate their over-engineering cost). Everything on the car could break, which doesn't give you the confidence to do a long road trip. The alternator went out at 60k mile (I think heating was a factor in the engine bay location), VANO solenoid went out and engine light went on (I think the VANO is over-engineeringed too, which makes it fragile). Shocks, RTAB and all the bushing, etc...

I would say that as long as you have the time, and do everything yourself, the maintenance is not as bad as you would think. The parts are not that much more than my STI if you go after market (all the STI aftermarket parts are not much cheaper when compared it to BMW's). The only thing is that there are more parts can go wrong in the E46, which could be a bit more costly when added up together. M3forum has all the tips you need.

I never regret that I bought the M3 and I would do it again if I can choose, because it's really the pinnacle of BMW's engineering (more so than E9x IMHO).

Drive them both (good luck on FR-S/BRZ, might take forever), and only your heart can tell you which one you want.

[Itgb]

Originally Posted by SpeedR

Don’t get a BMW without a warranty unless you have deep pockets
A brake job on my M Roadster was $4K.

Pads, ZCP rotors, sensors, and fluid is about $1k for parts, so how you paid $3k for labor is beyond me.

I have yet to drive an FR-S/BRZ, but my E46 M3 puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. The level of luxury and performance of the M3 cannot even compare to the FR-S/BRZ. If I were in your shoes(and you can financially plan for the higher maintenance costs), I would find a low miles M3 and enjoy.

[Gaiakai]

Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83

The insurance isn't THAT bad for them, unless you are young and/or have some things on your record.

I'm a new driver in the US, recently migrated here. It isn't bad, but it isn't ideal either.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Originally Posted by Gaiakai

I'm a new driver in the US, recently migrated here. It isn't bad, but it isn't ideal either.

I see... working in that industry, I know what you mean, since some companies go by your years of licensed driving experience in the U.S. A few companies will count international experience but not to the point where it gets you the same rate you would've had if you had been licensed in the U.S. since you were 16. However, there are a few insurance companies that do not verify your exact years of driving experience while defaulting your years of driving experience to however many years it's been since you turned 16.

[SunnyD]

I've had an e36 m3, Z4M coupe and an e60 m5 and let me tell you there's something special about M cars that you have to own to appreciate.

Comparing the M coupe (or e46 m3) to the FR-S, there's definitely a power difference, but the power delivery is the same. If you've driven an e46 m3, you'll notice that there's really not a lot of power under 4k rpms. Same as the FR-S, you'll have to rev the m3 up to 8k rpms to really get it to pull. So if you're hesitant to wind the FR-S up to get it going, the m3 is the same way.

I've contemplated getting an e46 m3 too for the price of the FR-S, but there's something about owning a new car and having you be the only person to put miles on it that makes it worth it to me.

[Gaiakai]

Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83

I see... working in that industry, I know what you mean, since some companies go by your years of licensed driving experience in the U.S. A few companies will count international experience but not to the point where it gets you the same rate you would've had if you had been licensed in the U.S. since you were 16. However, there are a few insurance companies that do not verify your exact years of driving experience while defaulting your years of driving experience to however many years it's been since you turned 16.

Did not know that, but sounds really awesome. Mind PMing me the names of those companies?


EDIT: Sorry for getting off topic

[Turbowned]

arsen89, if you own the Prius outright and plan on keeping it for a daily driver, then the M3 could make sense. You could save it for weekends and nice days only, and not have to put tons of miles on it, which would spread out your service intervals and delay the time between replacing expensive fluids, brakes, tires, etc. You could also keep cruising around getting 46-48mpg (or whatever you get in the Prius) vs. 15-22 in the BMW ($1,250/yr for 15k miles of driving vs $3,600/yr).

The M3 is undoubtedly a much better car overall than the FR-S, but you gotta pay to play! A 10-yr-old German car is not a brilliant choice for a daily driver, especially if you don't have deep pockets. A weekend car that you don't have to depend on however, could be an excellent choice!

On the other hand, unless you have driven high-performance RWD cars before, an M3 may not be the best first car to jump into. A low-powered FR like the FR-S would be a much better car to learn performance driving in. I would say if you don't have experience yet, you'd be able to better hone your skills as a driver in the FR-S, and then you could jump up to an M car in the future. Something to consider!

[arsen89]

Originally Posted by Droopy

I dont own a M3, but I own a E46 323i sedan, mine has about 200k miles on it, and its showing BIG time. When I bought it, she ran smooth had a little hiccup because of a spark plug bad. But anyways, mainteniance is high for a BMW, its gonna cost me $500 for a new fuel pump, brakes(rotor/pads) for one corner cost me about $150(if i remember correctly), went through about $600 just in 2 sets of bushings for the front sway bar, bought a new reservoir another $150 there(common promblem in E46 3 series). All of this just within 2 yrs of owning the car, BTW this is me doing all the work too

Yeah that does seem a bit high but not too bad. I would be planning to do the maintenance myself also. Like I stated earlier it seems that the FRS seems to be the hassle free way to go. I just really want to test drive the darn thing. You cant imagine how many reviews I've read and videos I've seen on it. I guess its just a matter of waiting to test drive, but from a convenient point of view, seems to be that the FRS is the way to go.

[arsen89]

Originally Posted by fatoni

do you have a job? if not, you probably shouldnt be taking on 30k in debt. really, even if you do, you probably shouldnt be taking on 30k in debt. the if the prius works you dont need a car. if you want a toy i would look into a used miata as its irresponsible to have a toy costing that much

I do have a job And also have money saved up (stated earlier). I would never finance a car for the full amount. Well it would not be just a toy I would drive more than just on the weekends and if I do keep the Prius, I would keep it if I bought the M3, just to keep the miles down on it. If I bought the FRS I would most likely get rid of the Prius. Miatas are nice too and actually was my secong car . Just want something different.

[arsen89]

Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83

He won't have $30k in debt, he said he has the money saved up and budgeted for a car, and a little extra for maintenance and such.

Thats Right

Originally Posted by fatoni

oh well i guess for the first time i was wrong in assuming that every thing since the op was off topic on ft86club. however, if you have 30k i would advise buying an asset instead of a liability. put your money to work and buy a car when you have more stability in your professional life

I do apologize for being somewhat off topic. But one of the cars is the FRS so I figured it would be a proper place to post this. Thanks for the advise.

Originally Posted by devinclfalcons

I'm actually looking at the Coupe. I won't be buying until later this fall so I'm hoping the prices come down a bit by then...

Do you happen to go to school at UT? I am graduating from A&M this week

They probably will, I do check that myself every now and again haha.

Oh No an aggie! haha kidding man. That is awesome Congrats! You must be super excited, party it up :happy0180: