2017 Civic Type R at Nurburgring

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

A Miata is not FWD? lol or did I miss something here. The comparison was between a FWD car and AWD systems. In the winter, with experience with many different FWD cars, I have never once had an issue gaining traction from a standstill.

If we were talking about RWD, which we weren't, then I totally agree.

Drivetrain is all but irrelevant. Level of grip is the only thing that really matters.
I drove a 420 wheel torque Mazdaspeed3 in the winter with great winter tires and never had a problem getting off the line before any Audi or STI with shit tires.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

Drivetrain is all but irrelevant. Level of grip is the only thing that really matters.
I drove a 420 wheel torque Mazdaspeed3 in the winter with great winter tires and never had a problem getting off the line before any Audi or STI with shit tires.

I can agree to this point mostly, as I do believe weight distribution has an impact.

[why?]

a twin with good winter tires will be great in the snow. It is all the traction and the right tires for the job.

[Si_Chris]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

If I wanted a to drive a car almost as ugly, I could do it a lot cheaper in a used Pontiac Aztec.

The looks are not for everyone. Sort of like the catfish front end on the 17+ MY 86s

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

Definitely sounds like a car to compliment my 86, but not replace.

I expect the shifter in the 86 will feel better based on what every single person has said so farm and the bigger car feeling like you mentioned may be a bit strange and not as sporty. A big draw for me to this car is that it is bigger though, this would be my "practical" car if and/or when(probably just when tbh) I have to get a "practical" car, lol.

Find your nearest non Honda used car dealer that has a used Civic Type R on the lot, and test drive it. That is pretty much the only way to get a feel for the car. Trust me, you will not be disappointed by the driving dynamics.

[unhappymeal]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

A Miata is not FWD? lol or did I miss something here. The comparison was between a FWD car and AWD systems. In the winter, with experience with many different FWD cars, I have never once had an issue gaining traction from a standstill.

If we were talking about RWD, which we weren't, then I totally agree.

No, I'm mainly talking about cars that drive two wheels vs four. Having owned just about every generation of Si, a MR-2, E46 M3, a BRZ, ATS, ND Miata and Golf R, all equipped with winter tires, the AWD cars are always noticeably easier to get moving. I'm not saying driving a high output FWD car in the snow is impossible, I am saying that getting the AWD car moving is mindlessly easy and requires next to no thought compared to the car that drives two wheels.

Anyways, you don't need to take my word for it. Just swing by the Civic X forums or check out Evo UK's, Top Gear's, Throttle House's etc. long-term reviews. They all gripe about wheel spin/hop in the wet or snow.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by unhappymeal

No, I'm mainly talking about cars that drive two wheels vs four. Having owned just about every generation of Si, a MR-2, E46 M3, a BRZ, ATS, ND Miata and Golf R, all equipped with winter tires, the AWD cars are always noticeably easier to get moving. I'm not saying driving a high output FWD car in the snow is impossible, I am saying that getting the AWD car moving is mindlessly easy and requires next to no thought compared to the car that drives two wheels.

Anyways, you don't need to take my word for it. Just swing by the Civic X forums or check out Evo UK's, Top Gear's, Throttle House's etc. long-term reviews. They all gripe about wheel spin/hop in the wet or snow.

Get better winter tires then, I don't know what else will help you.

Like I said earlier, when you drive like you have some sense and understand that there is snow on the ground, gaining traction from a stand still really isn't an issue, especially in a FWD car where there is typically more weight on the drive wheels.

The only real argument would be traction going up a hill.

You sure you didn't get sold some all seasons labeled as winters?

[StraightOuttaCanadaEh]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

Get better winter tires then, I don't know what else will help you.

Like I said earlier, when you drive like you have some sense and understand that there is snow on the ground, gaining traction from a stand still really isn't an issue, especially in a FWD car where there is typically more weight on the drive wheels.

The only real argument would be traction going up a hill.

You sure you didn't get sold some all seasons labeled as winters?

Man I used to get insane wheelspin on michelin x-ice (crappy winter tire btw) in a mini cooper. I can only imagine how much worse 200+ extra hp would be lol. It's all that low-rpm turbo torque

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanadaEh

Man I used to get insane wheelspin on michelin x-ice (crappy winter tire btw) in a mini cooper. I can only imagine how much worse 200+ extra hp would be lol. It's all that low-rpm turbo torque

X-ice are absolute garbage tires.

Bridgestone/Yokohama are so much better.

[StraightOuttaCanadaEh]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

X-ice are absolute garbage tires.

Bridgestone/Yokohama are so much better.

I bought cheap chinese winter tires for $460 shipped and no issues since lol. They are noisy as hell though. Very chunky but do the job extremely well

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by unhappymeal

No, I'm mainly talking about cars that drive two wheels vs four. Having owned just about every generation of Si, a MR-2, E46 M3, a BRZ, ATS, ND Miata and Golf R, all equipped with winter tires, the AWD cars are always noticeably easier to get moving. I'm not saying driving a high output FWD car in the snow is impossible, I am saying that getting the AWD car moving is mindlessly easy and requires next to no thought compared to the car that drives two wheels.

Anyways, you don't need to take my word for it. Just swing by the Civic X forums or check out Evo UK's, Top Gear's, Throttle House's etc. long-term reviews. They all gripe about wheel spin/hop in the wet or snow.

The coefficient of static friction between wet asphalt and dry asphalt is nearly identical. The coefficient of kinetic friction is much different, so as long as traction isn't lost in wet conditions, they should both fair about the same as they would in dry conditions, given equal ground temps. The best wet tires are summer tires. I'm not saying slicks, but soft and sticky is best. Just saying. Snow tires are completely different than dry/wet conditions as it comes to tire tread and rubber properties.

[unhappymeal]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

Get better winter tires then, I don't know what else will help you.

Like I said earlier, when you drive like you have some sense and understand that there is snow on the ground, gaining traction from a stand still really isn't an issue, especially in a FWD car where there is typically more weight on the drive wheels.

The only real argument would be traction going up a hill.

You sure you didn't get sold some all seasons labeled as winters?

Really? Are you honestly trying to argue that gaining traction in a FWD is as easy as a AWD car on the same tires? No. I use X-Ice 3 on every car I buy. I have driven the Type-R at the press event and had it for a week.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by unhappymeal

Really? Are you honestly trying to argue that gaining traction in a FWD is as easy as a AWD car on the same tires? No. I use X-Ice 3 on every car I buy. I have driven the Type-R at the press event and had it for a week.

Almost the worst winter tires for grip.

[funwheeldrive]

All-wheel-drive is a meme.

[Tokay444]

It's like FWD, but with training wheels.