New Hawk HP+ Compound

[RayRay88]

https://racer.com/2018/07/30/hawk-pe...d-hp-compound/


Apparently they've updated the compound are phasing out the Street/Race compound.

I was considering the street/race but now i'm wondering if its worth it just to go to the HP+

Any one run these yet and can offer some feedback? Specifically are they a decent value for 1-2 track days a year and daily driving vs some of the competition?
Noise?
Dust?
Cold bite etc.?

@CSG Mike do you have any input on these?

[CoolHandMoss]

The pre-update hp+ pads are great but they dust ridiculous amounts. If these are just as good with less dust, I'm in. I'm curious to see responses from anyone that has tried them recently as well.

[CounterSpace Garage]

The recommendation still stands - any dual purpose pad will have limitations and thus it's recommended to have a standard street pad for comfort on the street and proper race pad for actual race applications (even for the motivated track day).

While we are expected to roll out our dual purpose pad, the characteristics we were looking for requires an extensive amount of manufacturing processes implemented to make it happen. When that happens, it's no longer price sensitive to specific markets. Therefore, it will be limited to fairly specific applications.

[RayRay88]

Originally Posted by CounterSpace Garage

The recommendation still stands - any dual purpose pad will have limitations and thus it's recommended to have a standard street pad for comfort on the street and proper race pad for actual race applications (even for the motivated track day).

While we are expected to roll out our dual purpose pad, the characteristics we were looking for requires an extensive amount of manufacturing processes implemented to make it happen. When that happens, it's no longer price sensitive to specific markets. Therefore, it will be limited to fairly specific applications.

That's a fair point and one I thought might be brought up.
In terms of track pads, I'm hesitant about stepping up to something aggressive (Winmax W5/6 for example) because I'm still on stock Primacy's.
Most have said anything more than the HP+ will just overwhelm the stock tires and I'll end up spending more time worrying about locking up/engaging ABS than I will with any meaningful braking.
Am I being misinformed?

[Pat]

You are right to not use track pads with the stock tires.

[Turbo]

I'm running those updated HP+ pads on track. They've been out since July last year (and I have a confirmed set of the new compound).


I have been running 20-25 minute sessions at TMP Cayuga at full pace (or as near as I can as I fatigue) with them and getting ZERO fade with GREAT braking. Cayuga is pretty hard on brakes.

I'm running a 6 piston BBK up front and stock-sized Stoptech rotors w/OEM calipers on back with Motul RBF600 fluid. And I brake HARD, every lap.


IF you decide to go with the street/race I have a brand new set of rears here I was going to sell. I also have a set of brand new HP+ fronts (old compound) in case you're looking more for a fast-road option as opposed to outright track use.

[Turbo]

I just re-read one of your responses above.


If you're planning on sticking with the stock primacys the old HP+ may be the quick ticket for you. I've been told they pair well with the street/race compound in back at the track (to move the braking bias back a touch) which is why I bought the pads I did.

However, before they were installed I picked up a 6-piston brake kit, so I had to change it up.

[CounterSpace Garage]

Originally Posted by RayRay88

That's a fair point and one I thought might be brought up.
In terms of track pads, I'm hesitant about stepping up to something aggressive (Winmax W5/6 for example) because I'm still on stock Primacy's.
Most have said anything more than the HP+ will just overwhelm the stock tires and I'll end up spending more time worrying about locking up/engaging ABS than I will with any meaningful braking.
Am I being misinformed?

Aggressive is relative. What you're looking for is proper control over the entire brake system and how you can load the tire effectively. Pad compounds have thermal limits. Most people blow through them by trail braking and over abuse of the ABS. Generally speaking, dual purpose brake pads have a slightly higher temperature ceiling than standard street compounds. Lower cost dual purpose pads tend to also generate quite a bit more heat as well due to the higher friction coefficient, but also transfers that heat quickly through the entire brake system resulting in quicker fade in the fluid, and flexing calipers.

In this regard, the Hawk HP+, Winmax W3, or Project Mu HC+ are considered acceptable pads to use for spirited driving. Dependent on the track, the type of pad compound suitable for the application will change from the in your statement and even in this response.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Pat

You are right to not use track pads with the stock tires.

Why not? While not ALL track pads will pair well with the stock tires, some can!

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by RayRay88

https://racer.com/2018/07/30/hawk-pe...d-hp-compound/


Apparently they've updated the compound are phasing out the Street/Race compound.

I was considering the street/race but now i'm wondering if its worth it just to go to the HP+

Any one run these yet and can offer some feedback? Specifically are they a decent value for 1-2 track days a year and daily driving vs some of the competition?
Noise?
Dust?
Cold bite etc.?

@CSG Mike do you have any input on these?

I haven't tried them, so I have no input on these pads.

That said, a "jack of all trades" is also a master of none.

[Pat]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Why not? While not ALL track pads will pair well with the stock tires, some can!

Sure some can pair alright with stock tires, but certainly non-track pads would be a better match, don't you think?
To answer your question more directly, I would think it is difficult for many drivers to modulate many true track pads as well as a typical high-performance street pad with the limited grip levels stock tires provide.

[EAGLE5]

Everything CSG is saying is true. Race pads are totally fine on stock tires, good enough that I've had an instructor comment that I braked harder than most people while I was running stock tires. ABS kicked in rarely, and it was noticeable when it did. I have no claim to goodness when driving, far from it, so it's not some "wow I'm so good" thing. More like a "if I can do it, anybody can" thing. Run a real race pad at the track, and Hawk offers ones that are perfectly fine. I'm sure CSG will want to sell you pads they think are better.

[Pat]

FWIW, the last couple years most of the time I have spent on-track has been with Maxxis RC-1s and DTC-60s. When I changed tires to GT Radial SX-2s, I found the pads were a bit much for the tires. It's really not a big deal, but enough that I have considered trying out DTC-30s with the new tires. Another 86CUP participant, and a long-time NASA group leader and instructor, feels more strongly about it than I do.
It's really not a big deal either way, but some pads will be easier to modulate with stock tires than others. Certainly some of it comes down to driver preference, as well.

[RayRay88]

Looking at the Project Mu HC800's and GFour fluid for now, they seem to be very decently priced compared to the HP+, I think that might be a good starting point. I'll know more about what I want and the capabilities of me and the car after my track day.
Thank you everyone for your responses.