Ford Fiesta ST Beats Toyota GT86 on the Track in EVO Test

[suaveflooder]

Originally Posted by thill

I see your point, but I think it is important to understand the "why".

Like I always say. If someone if looking for max track performance for the money on a car, look no further than the Mustang GT. For about $27 grand you get a ton of performance for the money. That said, I would rather come in last place in my car than first in a Mustang

That has nothing to do with what this video was showing. In stock trim with stock tires, which car was better? It was the ford.

You can throw out the "why's" all day long. It's nothing more than bench racing and/or number racing. Who cares? Both sides can play the same "well if only it had this part" game and who's to say the Fiesta still wouldn't come out on top? The FRS/BRZ will live to fight another day.

[thill]

Originally Posted by suaveflooder

That has nothing to do with what this video was showing. In stock trim with stock tires, which car was better? It was the ford.

You can throw out the "why's" all day long. It's nothing more than bench racing and/or number racing. Who cares? Both sides can play the same "well if only it had this part" game and who's to say the Fiesta still wouldn't come out on top? The FRS/BRZ will live to fight another day.

Well since the reviewer in the video mentioned the GT86 tires as being a potentially liability I think it is worth at least a discussion. The guy was sliding the car all over the place.

Believe me, I am not one of those people that think the car is better than anything else out there around a track. And yes, you can always go down the rabbit hole once you start modifying the car, but it is pretty impressive to see the gains you can make with the car just by swapping it with the same diameter and width tire that offers more grip.

[Spaceywilly]

The real loser in this comparison is all of us for wasting our time watching the video. I'm sure there are also V6 Camrys that would beat a stock 86 around a track. That's not the point of these cars. Not to take anything away from the Fiesta ST, it is an awesome and really fun car in its own right, but it's not going for the same market as the FR-S and there's no point in comparing them, besides "neener neener this car is faster than that car" foolishness. If you are buying based solely on fastest lap times per dollar, go buy a used corvette.

[suaveflooder]

Originally Posted by thill

Well since the reviewer in the video mentioned the GT86 tires as being a potentially liability I think it is worth at least a discussion. The guy was sliding the car all over the place.

Believe me, I am not one of those people that think the car is better than anything else out there around a track. And yes, you can always go down the rabbit hole once you start modifying the car, but it is pretty impressive to see the gains you can make with the car just by swapping it with the same diameter and width tire that offers more grip.

lol, you are still bench racing, and you are also still talking about modifying the car away from factory specs. You throw wider tires on a tiny rims, you will run into other problems as well.

We can argue about this all day long, it doesn't change the outcome of the video. We can throw out "what if's" as well, video still doesn't change.

[thill]

Originally Posted by suaveflooder

lol, you are still bench racing, and you are also still talking about modifying the car away from factory specs. You throw wider tires on a tiny rims, you will run into other problems as well.

We can argue about this all day long, it doesn't change the outcome of the video. We can throw out "what if's" as well, video still doesn't change.

Nowhere did I say I wanted wider or larger tires. Dunlop Star Spec tires are identical to the the Primacy tires. Both are 215/45-17 87W.

This is what Road and Track used in the above link. If you don't want to discuss the tires in the thread then don't.

[suaveflooder]

Originally Posted by thill

Nowhere did I say I wanted wider or larger tires. Dunlop Star Spec tires are identical to the the Primacy tires. Both are 215/45-17 87W.

This is what Road and Track used in the above link. If you don't want to discuss the tires in the thread then don't.

lol. Okay. You win....I have no desire to waste the rest of my day on this. You feel better?

[Turbowned]

I kinnnda want to lease a Fiesta ST or a Fiat 500 Abarth in addition to the BRZ, not gonna lie...

[Brzetto]

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

The real loser in this comparison is all of us for wasting our time watching the video. I'm sure there are also V6 Camrys that would beat a stock 86 around a track. That's not the point of these cars. Not to take anything away from the Fiesta ST, it is an awesome and really fun car in its own right, but it's not going for the same market as the FR-S and there's no point in comparing them, besides "neener neener this car is faster than that car" foolishness. If you are buying based solely on fastest lap times per dollar, go buy a used corvette.

I'm the winner here, the video was so god damn boring that I couldn't be bothered to pay full attention to it. Even if the Fiesta ST made it to the US most of it's drivers would be old farts who think 25 mph is really 250 mph. Fords and Toyotas are the slowest assholes on Earth, every time I end up behind one the ****head won't push the fucking gas pedal. Yesterday some blonde bitch in a G37S wouldn't push the gas pedal on her car ether so I ended up doing a mini slalom to get past the fucking slowpokes. Infiniti doesn't make a kitchen.

[Splat]

That's right, my car still looks and feels awesome.

Originally Posted by suaveflooder

lol, why do so many FRS/BRZ guys get butt hurt when we lose on the track? Get over it! HA

[Superhatch]

I can buy a $1000 91 Civic DX, put in a B18C1 w/ cams for another 3K, buy some good coilovers for 2k, sticky tires and wheels for 2k...BAM 8K total and I bet it would tie a stock BRZ around a track.

OMG the Twins suck!!

I'm happy that Ford is coming out with fun hatchbacks. I'm happy that SOMEONE is producing fun, 200hp, front wheel drive cars that are also practical. I'm not a huge fan of the Ford interiors (rented a few for work) but I like the overall approach they are taking. That said, obviously tires are making the difference here. The driver variation between one lap, and best lap are two different things as well.

I think the big takeaway from anyone who has driven the Twins is that the potential is much greater than a lot of the other cars out there that it's getting compared to. It isn't a car that is a performance version of a car designed first as an economy car (WRX, ST, Si etc). This car was designed with one intention in mind and it shows.

Yes, on paper it might get beat, but I guarantee that 95% of the time people will choose to drive the Twins over those other cars both as a daily and on track.

[whataboutbob]

Originally Posted by topazsparrow

Excuse me for playing devils advocate here, but what empiracle evidence do you have to support this?

I think if you took the exact same car and made two versions of it, FWD and RWD, there would be a negligible difference in track times.

I think this mentality derives from the fact that most economy (cheap) cars are traditionally FWD because they are cheaper and more production friendly. The cars are not necessarily geared toward a specific purpose (like track ability) like many RWD cars are from the drawing board.

An argument could be made that if you are trying to make the same 2 tires propel the car and steer it that you are asking for a lot more of them than if you use 2 tires to steer and the other 2 to propel. Those contact patches can only do so much work.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Brzetto

I'm the winner here, the video was so god damn boring that I couldn't be bothered to pay full attention to it. Even if the Fiesta ST made it to the US most of it's drivers would be old farts who think 25 mph is really 250 mph. Fords and Toyotas are the slowest assholes on Earth, every time I end up behind one the ****head won't push the fucking gas pedal. Yesterday some blonde bitch in a G37S wouldn't push the gas pedal on her car ether so I ended up doing a mini slalom to get past the fucking slowpokes. Infiniti doesn't make a kitchen.

you say some crazy things. why do you use your wreckless driving around an infinity to explain why the makers of the lfa and gt40 as slow assholes?

Originally Posted by Superhatch

I can buy a $1000 91 Civic DX, put in a B18C1 w/ cams for another 3K, buy some good coilovers for 2k, sticky tires and wheels for 2k...BAM 8K total and I bet it would tie a stock BRZ around a track.

OMG the Twins suck!!

I'm happy that Ford is coming out with fun hatchbacks. I'm happy that SOMEONE is producing fun, 200hp, front wheel drive cars that are also practical. I'm not a huge fan of the Ford interiors (rented a few for work) but I like the overall approach they are taking. That said, obviously tires are making the difference here. The driver variation between one lap, and best lap are two different things as well.

I think the big takeaway from anyone who has driven the Twins is that the potential is much greater than a lot of the other cars out there that it's getting compared to. It isn't a car that is a performance version of a car designed first as an economy car (WRX, ST, Si etc). This car was designed with one intention in mind and it shows.

Yes, on paper it might get beat, but I guarantee that 95% of the time people will choose to drive the Twins over those other cars both as a daily and on track.

how can you be so sure that the frs is going to outsell the st 19:1?

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

I kinnnda want to lease a Fiesta ST or a Fiat 500 Abarth in addition to the BRZ, not gonna lie...

FR-S/BRZ + hot hatch = good combination. At least in my experience with my FR-S and GTI.

FR-S for daily commuting and weekend autocross/track. GTI for days when I need to haul 2-3 passengers or luggage, make Ikea runs, road trips, or bad weather.

Works out surprisingly well, and the GTI is practical enough where my wife hasn't demanded a minivan (yet).

[Brzetto]

Originally Posted by fatoni

you say some crazy things. why do you use your wreckless driving around an infinity to explain why the makers of the lfa and gt40 as slow assholes?


how can you be so sure that the frs is going to outsell the st 19:1?

Because I can and it's true their customers are slowpokes.