Project ToyoRati...F136S swapping FR-S

[Rex1585]

I'm currently in the early build and planning stages of this project

The What :. Time Trials Max category is a pretty much open ruleset, save a few small pieces, factory car wheelbase, engines must remain in the same origination, no tube frames.

I'm working to build a Scion FRS for this category, in the Max 3 ruleset. What that means, 2500lbs or 95% of factory weight with driver. NA factory engines under 4.5l or Factory turbo engines under 2.9l.

I'm going to be using a Maserati F136s, 4.2l and 395hp with dry sump oiling from the factory.

The Why : a certain group of competitors think the Cayman GT4 cannot be beat in that class. My goal is to prove them wrong. By a lot.

The When : TTNats 2023, October 12th, to be specific

The How : a lot of sleepless nights, bounced checks, blood, sweat, and a lot of tears.


I'm chronicling the process on YouTube, because why not?

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL...t7TZX7iZuC45Rs


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[JohnH]

that engine should be fantastic. Light, compact, dry sump and high revving, along with all the power.

[RedReplicant]

Oh my.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Rex1585

The Why : a certain group of competitors think the Cayman GT4 cannot be beat in that class. My goal is to prove them wrong. By a lot.

I kind of agree, I think it would take a lot work to supplant the GT4 but I don't see why it can't be done. Just won't be easy. Very cool build though, I think there is another guy in the FB group for TTNats that hinted at running this engine.

[Irace86.2.0]

PDK GT4s? Are you using the PDK or ZF auto from the Maserati or are you sticking to the 86 transmission or something aftermarket?

So essentially you are hoping the weight will be significant enough to make up the difference, if all else is the same like driver skill, tires, aero, etc?

Looking forward to following the build.

[Rex1585]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I kind of agree, I think it would take a lot work to supplant the GT4 but I don't see why it can't be done. Just won't be easy. Very cool build though, I think there is another guy in the FB group for TTNats that hinted at running this engine.

That would be me

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[Rex1585]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

PDK GT4s? Are you using the PDK or ZF auto from the Maserati or are you sticking to the 86 transmission or something aftermarket?



So essentially you are hoping the weight will be significant enough to make up the difference, if all else is the same like driver skill, tires, aero, etc?



Looking forward to following the build.

I'm using the Maserati DuoSelect, aka F1, transmission. However, I'm ditching the hydraulics, and all of that, and converting it to a straight manual.

My hope is the aero additions, the weight, and the tire increase will be enough.

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[Clash0901]

Maybe i'm not understanding the rules of the class but I feel like an S65 with DCT would be a better choice for this.

Either way I think this is going to be a badass build thread and I cannot wait!

[alex87f]

This is certainly not the easiest way to achieve your goal, provided it can be met (P-cars are annoyingly good), but it's one of the coolest.

I would think a 6-speed ZF would both be easier to swap (not a transaxle), faster with the right mods, cheaper and possibly more reliable. It wasn't offered with the 4.2, and the 4.7 doesn't meet your requirements, but it might bolt up to the 4.2. Or it might not.

Will you also build the first FA20-powered Quattroporte as well?

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Clash0901

Maybe i'm not understanding the rules of the class but I feel like an S65 with DCT would be a better choice for this.

Either way I think this is going to be a badass build thread and I cannot wait!

That would be good too. More hp. More revs. Wet sump and less torque/displacement though.

[Rex1585]

Originally Posted by alex87f

This is certainly not the easiest way to achieve your goal, provided it can be met (P-cars are annoyingly good), but it's one of the coolest.

I would think a 6-speed ZF would both be easier to swap (not a transaxle), faster with the right mods, cheaper and possibly more reliable. It wasn't offered with the 4.2, and the 4.7 doesn't meet your requirements, but it might bolt up to the 4.2. Or it might not.

Will you also build the first FA20-powered Quattroporte as well?

Thanks for the compliment.

The S65 is about 80lbs heavier, or so I'm told, and then the transmission weight on the front end would put a bunch more weight on the front axle.

I do have a more ... Nuclear option that would hands down beat the P-cars. But first, I gotta build this one and see.

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[Irace86.2.0]

A Synergy V8 is out because it is not factory and is derived from a motorcycle.

Audi has a 4.2L V8 in the RS5 that makes 444hp and 369tq.

The new RS5 gets a 2.9L turbo V6 making 444hp and 442tq. The same engine with less power is found in the Macan Turbo and other models like the Panamera and Cayenne, but this engine has two turbos, so it is against the rules.

The Ferrari 4.5L in the 458 Italia made 562hp and 398tq with a 9k redline.

[Rex1585]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

A Synergy V8 is out because it is not factory and is derived from a motorcycle.



Audi has a 4.2L V8 in the RS5 that makes 444hp and 369tq.



The new RS5 gets a 2.9L turbo V6 making 444hp and 442tq. The same engine with less power is found in the Macan Turbo and other models like the Panamera and Cayenne, but this engine has two turbos, so it is against the rules.



The Ferrari 4.5L in the 458 Italia made 562hp and 398tq with a 9k redline.

One of the more specific rules is the engine needs to come from the same end. So, The Ferrari 4.5L can't be used because the engine comes from the back of the car.

The big boy race build I would switch to is a 2.9L turbo that makes 500+ hp in factory form and comes from another famed Italian manufacturer.

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[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Rex1585

One of the more specific rules is the engine needs to come from the same end. So, The Ferrari 4.5L can't be used because the engine comes from the back of the car.

The big boy race build I would switch to is a 2.9L turbo that makes 500+ hp in factory form and comes from another famed Italian manufacturer.

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I didn't think that's how that rule was worded. I thought if you had an engine originally mounted longitudinal, the swapped engine must be mounted longitudinal. Originally transverse, swapped in engine must be mounted transverse.

I didn't think it mattered the original configuration the doner engine was mounted.