FRS-BRZ Port Fuel Injector (interesting)

[Element Tuning]

Here's a picture of the OEM port injectors on our FRS vs. the blue top feed injectors used in the WRX/STi



They appear to extend way into the intake runner and are very small. I can't say I've seen these used in any other application but if you have let me know on what vehicle.

Too small for our FRS and what we'll be doing so in went some 750cc I'm running a Hydra EMS so no these will not bolt in your stock FRS/BRZ. I had to make some fuel rail spacers to utilize the OEM fuel rails.

Thanks,
Phil Grabow

[jeebus]

so are you disabling the direct injection as well?

[JP]

they look similar to the injectors used on BMW's and Audi's...

similar Bosch Motorsport injectors looks like this:






Wouldn't be hard to machine those for an 11mm o-ring inlet and Denso seat

[Touge Monster]

Most of the new toyotas have injectors like that 3URFE injectors look very similar

[slow_frs]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

Here's a picture of the OEM port injectors on our FRS vs. the blue top feed injectors used in the WRX/STi



They appear to extend way into the intake runner and are very small. I can't say I've seen these used in any other application but if you have let me know on what vehicle.

Too small for our FRS and what we'll be doing so in went some 750cc I'm running a Hydra EMS so no these will not bolt in your stock FRS/BRZ. I had to make some fuel rail spacers to utilize the OEM fuel rails.

Thanks,
Phil Grabow

Why ... I'm quite certain that the direct injection will flow enough fuel alone for the power the motor can handle and if you max the duty cycle you can start adding fuel from the port injectors

[Element Tuning]

We are going forced induction and I'm not running gasoline so I'm planning ahead. Justvices not trying to create extra mapping.

We are building a 500 HP Time Attack FRS so much of what we do won't make sense to a casual enthusiest. For most following a similar path changing the port injectors is an easier solution than the direct injectors. At a high enough power level direct injection pressure won't be adequate to deliver enouch fuel on its own.

We don't plan on abandoning the direct injection at all, it's a huge asset to performance and fuel economy.

[Illusive]

The port injectors are there because without them the intake valves get way too dirty running only direct injection.

[arghx7]

For boosted applications, spraying E85 with direct injectors has a drastic improvement in charge cooling effect compared to port injectors.

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by arghx7

For boosted applications, spraying E85 with direct injectors has a drastic improvement in charge cooling effect compared to port injectors.

It has this same effect even with pump fuel. Direct injection is what allows this level of performance with a 12.5:1 running premium fuel which you cannot get with port injection alone.

[Dimman]

@arghx7

Just take some deep breaths, count to 10, and go off to the random pictures thread. Bestwheelbase has some pretty wicked pics posted.

[Allch Chcar]

It would be nice if there was a set of stock injectors that swapped over. Say in the +50%-100% higher flow range.

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

We are going forced induction and I'm not running gasoline so I'm planning ahead. Justvices not trying to create extra mapping.

We are building a 500 HP Time Attack FRS so much of what we do won't make sense to a casual enthusiest. For most following a similar path changing the port injectors is an easier solution than the direct injectors. At a high enough power level direct injection pressure won't be adequate to deliver enouch fuel on its own.

We don't plan on abandoning the direct injection at all, it's a huge asset to performance and fuel economy.

So what are you running if not Gasoline?

[serialk11r]

I haven't completely thought this through but with E85 especially and boost, wouldn't it be better to spray E85 into the manifold or something rather than the ports, assuming the direct injectors are maxed out? That way it evaporates before it hits the valves, and with boost it will help cool things down too. Reducing available air mass isn't a big deal since the lower temperature and pressure will allow more air to come in anyways.

[arghx7]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

I haven't completely thought this through but with E85 especially and boost, wouldn't it be better to spray E85 into the manifold or something rather than the ports, assuming the direct injectors are maxed out? That way it evaporates before it hits the valves, and with boost it will help cool things down too. Reducing available air mass isn't a big deal since the lower temperature and pressure will allow more air to come in anyways.

In a situation like this you want to run as much of the total fuel mass through the DI injectors as you can. This has to be within the hardware constraints (injector flow rate, fuel pressure capability) and the calibration constraints (injection timing window). I don't want to sound like an obnoxious name dropper but I went to a long MIT presentation about this a couple months ago at an industry alternative fuels conference.

There is an exponential relationship between the charge cooling effect of PFI and GDI when using ethanol. The MIT Sloan Automotive Lab did a very in-depth engine dyno study on this. They were funded by GM (among others) and used a Pontiac Solstice engine modified with PFI injectors.





the chemical anti-knocking properties of ethanol are still there when you use port injection or your typical alcohol injection type of deal (spraying it into the intake. The charge cooling effect is far weaker, and the effective octane number (in RON) is far less.

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

It would be nice if there was a set of stock injectors that swapped over. Say in the +50%-100% higher flow range.



So what are you running if not Gasoline?

I'm currently on E85 but I may also be running some race fuel. Trying to get more power out of this car for Ultimate Track Car Challenge which is next week so I need to move faster than I want.

I'm sure there will be a nice OEM like replacement port injector in the future. For now I'm just sharing what information I've gathered. Port fuel injection runs at 55 psi by the way.