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View Poll Results: Are you in???
Yeehaah! Pack the Antihistamines, I'm there like a bear! 10 71.43%
I'm a Grinch and its too cold. 3 21.43%
I'm sending a donation with a fellow Hachi, 'cos thats how we roll! 1 7.14%
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-29-2015, 09:22 AM   #127
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Did you start braking at the 50 marker
I wish. When I get it right, it's at about 100m, wrong in that vid was at about 80m.
As I said above, try to spot the bonnet dipping - that's when the brakes go on, not when I lift off the throttle.
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Old 07-29-2015, 09:30 AM   #128
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Proves what you were saying before, Andy, that Red Star is a much more forgiving track than the likes of Zwartkops.
I agree completely, it's very comforting to have nothing to crash into. I imagine the bikers think that even more so.

The only downside is that there are very few landmarks, especially with it being so flat, so finding your way round first couple of times is tricky. But I got over that.
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Old 07-29-2015, 10:14 AM   #129
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I agree completely, it's very comforting to have nothing to crash into. I imagine the bikers think that even more so.

The only downside is that there are very few landmarks, especially with it being so flat, so finding your way round first couple of times is tricky. But I got over that.
I'm really glad I went to Red Star first. Zwartkops is convenient for me, being based in Pretoria. However, Red Star really put Zwartkops in perspective for me. Some of those turns are fast. When I did the BMW training there, I didn't have the balls to take Turn 1 nearly as fast as I could have, because you have to trust that the car will stick before turning in at a set speed.

I'm not that worried about understeer, because it is not dramatic. You straighten out, get on the brakes, and hopefully you have enough road left to make the corner on a wider line.

I'm worried about snap oversteer, especially with the elevation changes. As the weight of the car lifts over a crest and settles again, you can get some interesting results. Also, a tiny bit of oversteer at speed scares the shit out of me, because you can't really ride it into a drift, and grip can come back suddenly enough to violently snap the car around.

So this post makes me sound like I worry a lot . I'm just saying that I will definitely approach Zwartkops with a fair amount of caution lodged in my mind, whereas at Red Star I really gave it a good go even for my first time.

To show what I mean, check Sabine Schmitz save this tank slapper at the ring while driving a customer's car (incident just after
):

[ame]http://youtu.be/uaaD_bSDaIQ?t=8m15s[/ame]

Last edited by LostSalad; 07-29-2015 at 10:24 AM. Reason: Add video
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Old 07-29-2015, 10:19 AM   #130
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Hey Everyone,

Thank-You ALL for joining us and making P4P a huge success. It would have sucked without all the 86's! You guys rock!

We made just over R20 000 for our charity, and they are absolutely ecstatic, and so, so grateful.

Good news is that we're starting on next year's event so long, hope we see you there!
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Old 07-29-2015, 01:29 PM   #131
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You would have liked this one...
I worked out this was on my 43rd lap on Saturday.
You'd think I'd have my braking point worked out by then

Hahaha I had the exact same off at the exact same place, fantastic!! Pretty sure the EXACT same place.
Without SC, not quite as much speed so tried at the 50m and took @Guseman for a farming trip! ������
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Old 07-29-2015, 03:36 PM   #132
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I noticed another set of tyre tracks in the grass
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Old 07-30-2015, 05:11 AM   #133
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I'm really glad I went to Red Star first. Zwartkops is convenient for me, being based in Pretoria. However, Red Star really put Zwartkops in perspective for me.
...snip...
I'm worried about snap oversteer
...snip...
So this post makes me sound like I worry a lot . I'm just saying that I will definitely approach Zwartkops with a fair amount of caution lodged in my mind, whereas at Red Star I really gave it a good go even for my first time.
No, you're not a worrier - it's a very real risk, and even after 800+ track laps, I'm still very careful at Zwartkops. Here's my advice for what it's worth. Take it or leave it, and many will disagree with me...

Switch your traction control fully off at Red Star, Midvaal (once you know the track), and on the skidpan. These places are where you can relatively safely practice managing oversteer, drifting, and improve your oversteer recovery skills.

Leave your nannies fully on at Zwartkops and Kyalami whether wet or dry and don't succumb to peer pressure. You can do quite fast laps with them on. I can run in the 1m18s with a passenger on board at Zwartkops with the nannies fully on and without triggering them.

As you know, it's very obvious when they interfere. That tells you that you're asking your car to do something it can't do. Have them on, but try to never cause them to kick in. Driving just within your car's capabilty is what you want to learn. Only once you get much better will you gain time by switching them off, but obviously you'll have more risk. Take another look at Jacques' Red Star video. You won't see him drifting or sliding around. Smooth = quick, and sliding isn't smooth.

Having said that, the nannies are just an aid. There is no cure for defying the laws of physics. If you go into a corner at a speed that your car is incapable of handling, nannies or not, you're going off - QED. But they might or are even likely to catch some silly mistakes and allow you to learn from that without breaking the bank.

I'm susceptible to distraction, especially when chatting to a passenger, and it takes very little distraction to make a big mistake. I will always keep my nannies on when I've got a passenger on board. During the past year they've saved me twice when I've had a passenger and made a stupid mistake. In one instance especially, I would probably have hook spun into the wall on T9 at Midvaal, and thrown my car away. I'm very glad that didn't happen.

YMMV
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Old 07-30-2015, 07:02 AM   #134
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I'm just saying that I will definitely approach Zwartkops with a fair amount of caution lodged in my mind, whereas at Red Star I really gave it a good go even for my first time.
That is how I felt as well. I tried a lot of risky maneuvers at RSR. I mowed the lawn, sowed the seeds and watered the fields and my car came out without a scratch.
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Old 07-30-2015, 07:16 AM   #135
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That is how I felt as well. I tried a lot of risky maneuvers at RSR. I mowed the lawn, sowed the seeds and watered the fields and my car came out without a scratch.
I enjoyed watching you playing which would have made anybody's head spin faster than your car was.
You were obviously having a ball

Exactly what I was trying to say - play in the garden, not in street.
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Old 07-30-2015, 08:18 AM   #136
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I enjoyed watching you playing which would have made anybody's head spin faster than your car was.
You were obviously having a ball

Exactly what I was trying to say - play in the garden, not in street.
I was indeed, the best part is so far there is no evidence of any of my mishaps My brake fluid needs changing however, and I am considering changing transmission and differential fluid while I'm at it.

I've read here Motul gear 300 can be used for both transmission and LSD fluid and most likely Motul 660 for brake fluid.
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Old 07-30-2015, 08:52 AM   #137
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Also going to try to change Transmission fluid, after the track day my gear box does not feel the same, feels much sticker/rough when changing gears at low rpm's
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Old 07-30-2015, 08:54 AM   #138
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Having said that, the nannies are just an aid. There is no cure for defying the laws of physics. If you go into a corner at a speed that your car is incapable of handling, nannies or not, you're going off - QED. But they might or are even likely to catch some silly mistakes and allow you to learn from that without breaking the bank.

Yup. In the wet at Red Star they kicked in a lot for me as soon as I started pushing it. Even with all the goodies on, the car can get pretty unsettled. Even on the street, if you throw the car into a corner after a good shower, it has a certain momentum that has to play out before the car can stabilize again.

I'm susceptible to distraction, especially when chatting to a passenger, and it takes very little distraction to make a big mistake.

Well, as that video you posted earlier in the thread shows, faster the speeds =
lower margin for error. Being 0.4sec off can be huge.
Anyway - I love the fact that you constantly encourage people to go at their own pace. Testosterone can often get in the way of this, and cars have a way of bringing out the testosterone in spades

With @Freedom mentioning changing transmission fluid - my gears feel slightly stiffer ever since the track day o.O. Does this even make sense? Same with the oil. I could be imagining things, but the 5w30 they put in feels "thicker" somehow. Like I have to work the car slightly harder to cruise. I had 0w20 before. It doesn't say so on the bottle, but that's what they told me it is *shrug*.
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Old 07-30-2015, 08:56 AM   #139
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Also going to try to change Transmission fluid, after the track day my gear box does not feel the same, feels much sticker/rough when changing gears at low rpm's
^ Same here. Typed it in my previous post as you posted this
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Old 07-30-2015, 09:10 AM   #140
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Anyway - I love the fact that you constantly encourage people to go at their own pace. Testosterone can often get in the way of this, and cars have a way of bringing out the testosterone in spades

With @Freedom mentioning changing transmission fluid - my gears feel slightly stiffer ever since the track day o.O. Does this even make sense? Same with the oil. I could be imagining things, but the 5w30 they put in feels "thicker" somehow. Like I have to work the car slightly harder to cruise. I had 0w20 before. It doesn't say so on the bottle, but that's what they told me it is *shrug*.
5w30 is the correct engine oil grade as long as they used the toyota approved oil. Green and grey bottle. There is a picture somewhere of it on the forum.

My gears have always been hard / knotchy especially when cold that's why I want to try a new transmission fluid, I've read it can make a big difference. I want to change LSD fluid just to clear some of the gunk out from wear and tear. If you do a lot if skidpan / ghymkanas you need to do this.
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