Subaru Toyota Collab on Next Gen 86 Stopped

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by gymratter

before someone asks how creditable Bestcar is, like with any publication they have hits and misses. they were pretty spot on when it came to the Supra tho.

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/mkv...magazine.1799/

Nope, don't trust bestcar or any site like that. The supra was spotted from miles away by everyone and renders were available from as close as around 2015! Not to mention all the nurburgring testing and pics of the license plates that toyota uses for testing.

[HachiRokuX]

Originally Posted by FRSBRZGT86FAN

Nope, don't trust bestcar or any site like that. The supra was spotted from miles away by everyone and renders were available from as close as around 2015! Not to mention all the nurburgring testing and pics of the license plates that toyota uses for testing.

Eh, idk. Bestcar was pretty spot on with the Supra’s dimensions, 0-60, design, and pier...


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[evoto86]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Except the Supra is literally twice as expensive. Multiple engine options cost R&D money, which needs to be recuperated, and since the base engine is typically the most popular, it will hike the price of the base model.

I think its BS if Hyundai can offer more versatile engine packages than what's Toyota's excuse. Korean's are actually doing something right while the Japanese are going backwards. The base model I30N or Veloster N can be had for the same price of a fully loaded BRZ and the base model N cars still have more features and technology and the better engine. R&D trickles down into the final price by how much exactly because the Koreans have spent a shit ton in R&D recently and still offer competitive pricing.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by evoto86

I think its BS if Hyundai can offer more versatile engine packages than what's Toyota's excuse. Korean's are actually doing something right while the Japanese are going backwards. The base model I30N or Veloster N can be had for the same price of a fully loaded BRZ and the base model N cars still have more features and technology and the better engine. R&D trickles down into the final price by how much exactly because the Koreans have spent a shit ton in R&D recently and still offer competitive pricing.

Counterpoint: RWD adds 5 grand min to the car.

RWD cars typically aren’t platform shared since they’re so rare these days. Sharing engines among FWD/AWD cars is easy. On top of that FWD powertrains are cheaper to assemble and install. Look at how much they had to modify the Impreza chassis to build the BRZ, even though it was already driving the rears and had a longitudinally mounted engine. It uses a transmission that’s closer to the S2000’s than anything else. The diff is from a Lexus IS.

There’s a lot more to it than the Japanese being lazier than the Koreans. Comparing RWD apples to RWD apples, The Stinger and the Genesises are priced like a Lexus after all.

[chipmunk]

Very curious about the price, and how much improvement it is over the current gen. For daily-driving and occasional twisty road trips, the current gen is plenty for me. But if the newer one is significantly better, perhaps I'll be doing one of those pictures, "My wife said if I could get 1 million likes, I could get the new BRZ"

[Yoshoobaroo]

I’m curious if we’ll actually see the 2nd gen for 2021. I feel like we don’t have enough information and spyshots for it to be that close..

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by evoto86

I think its BS if Hyundai can offer more versatile engine packages than what's Toyota's excuse. Korean's are actually doing something right while the Japanese are going backwards. The base model I30N or Veloster N can be had for the same price of a fully loaded BRZ and the base model N cars still have more features and technology and the better engine. R&D trickles down into the final price by how much exactly because the Koreans have spent a shit ton in R&D recently and still offer competitive pricing.

Yeah, but, they're still Korean cars...

[chipmunk]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

I’m curious if we’ll actually see the 2nd gen for 2021. I feel like we don’t have enough information and spyshots for it to be that close..

I used to work at an auto OEM. They had a whole team that did competitive market research, intelligence and surveillance of competitors, etc. Their internal webpage had a full list of all past, current and future vehicles, various categories, from various OEMs. If I remember correctly, it said the 2nd gen BRZ was supposed to be in 2019. Not much info other than what was already on the internet. Toyota/Subaru must be really good at keeping secrets!

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[86MLR]

If they don't release something new before/around 2021 my next new car will not be a 86.

I'm hoping that the "story" that Toyota and Lexus were looking at the 86 and kicking Subaru to the kerb.

I've owned 2 Subaru boxers, a EJ25 in my 2015 STI and the FA20 in my 2017 86, I was over the EJ and only got the FA because I wanted 4 cyl, RWD manual coupe and didn't want a MX5 RF.

Rumors are that Lexus will use BMW 6 cyl engines in the coming years, how would a 300hp BMW TwinPower turbocharged in line 4 cyl engine sit it the engine bay of a new and improved 86???
Manual transmission of course, ha ha of course, ha ha of course.

Oh, ok, and a automatic variant for the special needs, I'm all for equal opportunity.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

I’m curious if we’ll actually see the 2nd gen for 2021. I feel like we don’t have enough information and spyshots for it to be that close..

We have:

https://www.carscoops.com/2018/09/ba...-updates-ring/


I don't think they added aero in similar fashion like S209, without updating the engine (2.4 liter NA?)

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

Yeah, but, they're still Korean cars...

I remember when people used to say that about Japanese cars......

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

If they don't release something new before/around 2021 my next new car will not be a 86.

I'm hoping that the "story" that Toyota and Lexus were looking at the 86 and kicking Subaru to the kerb.

Sounds unlikely, they don’t have a RWD platform anywhere near this light.

I've owned 2 Subaru boxers, a EJ25 in my 2015 STI and the FA20 in my 2017 86, I was over the EJ and only got the FA because I wanted 4 cyl, RWD manual coupe and didn't want a MX5 RF. Rumors are that Lexus will use BMW 6 cyl engines in the coming years, how would a 300hp BMW TwinPower turbocharged in line 4 cyl engine sit it the engine bay of a new and improved 86???
Manual transmission of course, ha ha of course, ha ha of course.

I really hope not. I have an N55 powered 3 series, and while it makes tons of power and torque, it’s not an exciting motor to rev out. All BMWs turbo motors have been like that. They don’t race to redline like the BRZ does, they don’t beg you to thrash the everloving crap out of them like the FA20 does. They’re powerful, but that’s really it. Also BMWs shifters and clutch pedals suck compared to what we have in the twins. No feedback, rubbery, and inconsistent.


A high compression high redline FA24 on a carryover chassis from the current platform sounds perfect to me. Get it to 230hp and keep it under 2800lbs. No need to reinvent the wheel after 1 gen. Most cars evolve incrementally across generations, they’re not completely redesigned over 2 generations. At most we’re getting a new platform (not likely IMO) or a new engine, not both.

[p1l0t]

Originally Posted by Rampage

I remember when people used to say that about Japanese cars......

I got a 2019 Kia Forte sedan as a rental car the other day. They have come a long way. Other than the FWD it was a pretty solid car. Lots of options too (cruise control, lane departure warning, dual climate control, HID, backup cam with a BIG screen, etc...). I wasn't embarrassed to drive it around unlike some of the older models.

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[HachiRokuX]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Sounds unlikely, they don’t have a RWD platform anywhere near this light.



I really hope not. I have an N55 powered 3 series, and while it makes tons of power and torque, it’s not an exciting motor to rev out. All BMWs turbo motors have been like that. They don’t race to redline like the BRZ does, they don’t beg you to thrash the everloving crap out of them like the FA20 does. They’re powerful, but that’s really it. Also BMWs shifters and clutch pedals suck compared to what we have in the twins. No feedback, rubbery, and inconsistent.


A high compression high redline FA24 on a carryover chassis from the current platform sounds perfect to me. Get it to 230hp and keep it under 2800lbs. No need to reinvent the wheel after 1 gen. Most cars evolve incrementally across generations, they’re not completely redesigned over 2 generations. At most we’re getting a new platform (not likely IMO) or a new engine, not both.

Just a couple questions..

Isn’t it likely that a more powerful engine w/ more displacement and smaller changes like sound deadening, maybe a premium interior option would add weight to the current car?

Can’t current owners essentially get 230 peak hp with header/exhaust/tune? All while removing weight from the car? I’d be happy with 230 myself but I think a lot of current owners might keep their cars, depending on what else a second gen could bring to the table.


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