Jackson Racing Rotrex Supercharger System Info and Discussion

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by jamesm

Having used them all... I have to agree with that statement. Still seems like and odd self-imposed limitation though, just from a marketing standpoint. Some people don't like sd (I think they're crazy, but they exist lol).

I do too.

It's too difficult to pass a SD tune through the CARB process; you have to CARB each individual component that is replaced...

[mit_peid]

Met Oscar Sr & Jr tonight at the Irvine meet and they were great to talk to. Good to see they're just car regular guys that can talk car crap all night long.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by *LongFella

I didn't have time to bust out the tape measure, but I snapped a few quick photos of the area:

Attachment 70299Attachment 70301

@Calum check it. Thanks *Fella. Some DEI gold tape and $7K would put me in business...

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by *LongFella

Maybe it's my lack of understanding, but I can't see how the OEM oil cooler is efficient enough to combat FI heat you get from multiple pulls and/or track days. Maybe I'm a noob, but you get all the real estate and rows of the satreb up front with more oil getting cooled than a small amount near the filter on the OEM... Maybe I'm not understanding how the OEM one works... Idk

when you combine the OEM oil cooler with a bigger radiator (in my case "Koyo" as I mentioned in my previous post) you actually increase the ability of the cooling system which ultimately affect the ability of the OEM oil cooler since they interact each other

Since the coolant that circulates around the bigger/more capable radiator and the sandwich plate, it helps reduce the OIL temps as well. In other words, oil cooler combined with a bigger radiator behaves like a bigger oil cooler, it's like killing two birds with one stone. Let me explain why..

As opposed to air to oil cooler, there's no penalty of using the coolant to oil cooler (such as unwanted cool temps) in the cold days since when you first start the car, it bypasses the radiator to warm the engine (and the oil), thanks to the thermostat .. "cold doesn't necessarily mean better", "ideal temps" are better ..

This was the case with many Corvette Grand Sport owners as opposed to newer Z06s' or ZR1s' oil cooler system ..GS utilizes the air to oil system and many people complained that it takes too long to warm up the cars in the morning.. With that said, this may not be an issue for the CA residents but I would still keep an eye on the oil temps during the winter

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The thing is, it's still approaching 235-240F, which is higher than even the cheapest oil-air oil coolers, AND you're adding more strain to the engine coolant.

He lives in Texas and he was able to drop down his temps from 294f to 235-240f .. it's an accomplishment in my book..the difference is HUUUGE, don't you think?

I wonder if he still uses the factory radiator.. My friend ended up spending $1200 on his Z06 just to drop the temps from 260s to 230s and he was pretty happy with it

also, I think Subaru keeps a good safety margin for their turbo engine cars and I believe it should provide adequate cooling.. just think about it they sell the same exact cars to South Africa to Arizona, Iceland to Australia ..I never had any heat soak issues with my previous STIs when I was driving them in hot summer days in FL ( no major mods of course) except the fact even my 5w-40 Rotella T6 was getting pretty bad after 2-3k miles..

Compared to TMIC w/turbo vs FMIC w/Rotrex SC I am pretty sure it generates a lot more heat

[glamcem]

once I finalize my setup ( hopefully I can arrange the funds soon), I will definitely report back and provide before and after logs

[*LongFella]

Originally Posted by mit_peid

Met Oscar Sr & Jr tonight at the Irvine meet and they were great to talk to. Good to see they're just car regular guys that can talk car crap all night long.

Absolutely agree! The last two times I went to their shop I find myself engulfed in conversation listening and learning for a few hours over expresso. Great Company and great family business

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by glamcem

He lives in Texas and he was able to drop down his temps from 294f to 235-240f .. it's an accomplishment in my book..the difference is HUUUGE, don't you think?

I wonder if he still uses the factory radiator.. My friend ended up spending $1200 on his Z06 just to drop the temps from 260s to 230s and he was pretty happy with it

also, I think Subaru keeps a good safety margin for their turbo engine cars and I believe it should provide adequate cooling.. just think about it they sell the same exact cars to South Africa to Arizona, Iceland to Australia ..I never had any heat soak issues with my previous STIs when I was driving them in hot summer days in FL ( no major mods of course) except the fact even my 5w-40 Rotella T6 was getting pretty bad after 2-3k miles..

Compared to TMIC w/turbo vs FMIC w/Rotrex SC I am pretty sure it generates a lot more heat

Believe me, I'm a huge advocate of oil-water coolers. I just don't think that it's the right solution on a FRS/BRZ. This is one of the first things that is replaced on Subies that are driven hard.

I run an oil/water on my S2000, and we run oil/water coolers on the boosted CSG s2ks. My last oil change went for 12k miles. Yes, 12k on the same oil. It's amazing what you can get away with when a system is properly spec'd out.

I've recommended the Cusco oil/water cooler to several boosted FRS/BRZ owners, who have heavy space constraints.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by *LongFella

Absolutely agree! The last two times I went to their shop I find myself engulfed in conversation listening and learning for a few hours over expresso. Great Company and great family business

That little espresso machine is dangerous.

[Deep Six]

Mike, are you aware of anyone combining the JR system with a Robi-Cooler yet?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Deep Six

Mike, are you aware of anyone combining the JR system with a Robi-Cooler yet?

Negative, but it will fit.

[*LongFella]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Believe me, I'm a huge advocate of oil-water coolers. I just don't think that it's the right solution on a FRS/BRZ. This is one of the first things that is replaced on Subies that are driven hard.

I run an oil/water on my S2000, and we run oil/water coolers on the boosted CSG s2ks. My last oil change went for 12k miles. Yes, 12k on the same oil. It's amazing what you can get away with when a system is properly spec'd out.

I've recommended the Cusco oil/water cooler to several boosted FRS/BRZ owners, who have heavy space constraints.

Maybe it's the noob status, but I'm still struggling to see where/how an oil/water cooler is efficient enough for heavy driving?

I understand the larger radiator might help cool the coolant more and in turn, help with the oil... but your still passing such a small amount of coolant through a little tiny donut for milli seconds....

Oil to air gives you a larger satreb up front which holds a good amount of oil... so my brain tells me a lot more oil is getting colder faster than in this little donut piece by the filter... As long as air is passing through the front I'm good... If no air... That's where I can see an issue... but the car's typically always moving...

Need to do more research, I must!

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by *LongFella

Maybe it's the noob status, but I'm still struggling to see where/how an oil/water cooler is efficient enough for heavy driving?

I understand the larger radiator might help cool the coolant more and in turn, help with the oil... but your still passing such a small amount of coolant through a little tiny donut for milli seconds....

Oil to air gives you a larger satreb up front which holds a good amount of oil... so my brain tells me a lot more oil is getting colder faster than in this little donut piece by the filter... As long as air is passing through the front I'm good... If no air... That's where I can see an issue... but the car's typically always moving...

Need to do more research, I must!

Precisely. The aftermarket oil-water coolers I'm talking about are using cores similar to the size of the Rotrex oil cooler, not a little donut sandwich plate.

The real function of the "oil cooler" on the Forester is actually an oil heater. It brings the oil up to operating temperature faster in colder climates, because the coolant is actually warming the oil. It only cools the oil if the coolant is cooler than the oil.

E.g., 2 minutes after starting, if the oil is 100F, and coolant is 180F, the coolant is warming the oil.

Likewise, 80F ambient vs 240F oil with a large surface area will cool the oil more, than 190F coolant vs 240F oil with a tiny surface area.

Yes, the specific heat of Water is spectacularly high, but not enough to compete with a proper oil-air cooler in this application vs a Forester cooler.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Believe me, I'm a huge advocate of oil-water coolers. I just don't think that it's the right solution on a FRS/BRZ. This is one of the first things that is replaced on Subies that are driven hard.

I run an oil/water on my S2000, and we run oil/water coolers on the boosted CSG s2ks. My last oil change went for 12k miles. Yes, 12k on the same oil. It's amazing what you can get away with when a system is properly spec'd out.

I've recommended the Cusco oil/water cooler to several boosted FRS/BRZ owners, who have heavy space constraints.

Thanks for the info , I will also take a look at the Cusco system then but I still want to try the OEM oil cooler with a bigger radiator, after all it costs 1/3 of the aftermarket units

What could be considered as the dangerous operating oil temp for these cars? With the Vette, I always tried to keep it below 260 ( was doing a few cool down laps even with the air-oil cooler) . 230-240F didn't sound much

here's a video of my Grand Sport which I traded for the Miata

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xje4jWGll4"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xje4jWGll4[/ame]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Precisely. The aftermarket oil-water coolers I'm talking about are using cores similar to the size of the Rotrex oil cooler, not a little donut sandwich plate.

The real function of the "oil cooler" on the Forester is actually an oil heater. It brings the oil up to operating temperature faster in colder climates, because the coolant is actually warming the oil. It only cools the oil if the coolant is cooler than the oil.

E.g., 2 minutes after starting, if the oil is 100F, and coolant is 180F, the coolant is warming the oil.

Likewise, 80F ambient vs 240F oil with a large surface area will cool the oil more, than 190F coolant vs 240F oil with a tiny surface area.

Yes, the specific heat of Water is spectacularly high, but not enough to compete with a proper oil-air cooler in this application vs a Forester cooler.

Yes I heard someone also mentioned as an oil heater but I don't think that is true. It is still sold as "Oil Cooler"