Subaru Engine reliability?

[FRSCoupe]

I can't help but notice many head gasket issues reported by owners of Subaru.
cases of spun rod bearing at an seemingly early age , oil consumption etc over at nasioc.com. Many posts about engine rebuilds and many experts over there. NA and turbo car.

That's really the only thing holding me back about the FRS.
If this is going to be a car to be driven spiritedly, I don't want to be too worried about things like high RPM and oil consumption. I also don't want to end up having to rebuild the engine earlier than typical Toyota.

So what is your take on this and subaru boxer engine experience?


google results
oil consumption site:nasioc.com 6000 hits

spun bearing site:nasioc.com 8700 hits

[Turbowned]

http://autos.yahoo.com/news/subaru-t...-for-2012.html

All manufacturers have small issues with engines here n' there. Think Toyota engines never have problems? Hahahahahaha! They're still the two most reliable automakers. I really wouldn't be concerned. Toyota and Subaru are also probably the most comprehensive when it comes to customer support. There's no such thing as "out-of-warranty" if you make a big enough stink about something. This letter to Subaru dealers from SoA really solidified my decision:

BRZ Launch - Your help is needed to make it a success

TO:
All Dealers
FROM:
Subaru of America, Inc.
DEPARTMENT:
Service Department
DATE:
06/01/2012
CATEGORY:
Parts/Service

First a huge THANK YOU!! to everyone who reported items as part of the Launch programs. Your support was truly incredible and invaluable. Everyone here at SOA and at FHI truly appreciated your reports. Many items were improved for our customers as a result and we all benefit from that.
We now are asking for your support on another new model launch - The “ALL NEW” 2013MY Subaru BRZ.
You are the key to making it a resounding success. How? You are our (SOA & FHI’s) eyes and ears. When the customer speaks, you hear it first. When cars come in for prep or service, you see them first. Early feedback is essential as it allows any enhancements to be implemented in the greatest number of future vehicles. This is why we need your feedback early and often.
Please pay careful attention to the 2013 BRZs that you come into contact with daily at your dealership, and provide us with your feedback about everything and anything that could be viewed as either a quality concern or an area for enhancement. In particular listen to what our customers are saying.
“If customers say it, We want to hear it.”

• In the Showroom (What do they like? What don’t they like?)
• On a Test Drive (What do they comment on or ask about? What do they like? What do they dislike?)
• During Delivery (What questions do they ask? Is there any function or operation that doesn’t seem intuitive?)
• As part of After Sale Follow-Up (What questions do they ask?)
• During a Service Appointment (Are there operations or characteristics that they are unsure of? Are there quality issues? Are there maintenance questions?)
• Have they called in with a question about their new car because it does something or doesn’t do something or does it differently from their last car? What are they asking about?

If a customer believes there is a quality concern or an area needing enhancement, we want to know it. Not sure how to report feedback? Check with your Subaru Service Manager or Subaru Technicians for help in submitting an E-QMR including pictures or videos whenever possible.
From now through October, there will be a special Quality Monitoring Team in the U.S. continuously monitoring field reports, claims and customer cases related to this new model. The Team is very interested in EVERYTHING. Even in cases when a customer has an issue that is deemed to be a normal characteristic (they all do it), or just a “dislike”, we still want to know about it. While there is no guarantee that a change will occur, we can guarantee that nothing will happen if we don’t know about it or understand the total size and scope of the concern.
Never assume that SOA is aware, unless you file an E-QMR through Subaru Solutions. If more than one customer has said it, please list multiple VINs or file additional reports. Don’t just stop with one report and assume we understand the full size and scope. You can add to existing E-QMRs if that’s easier. The update appears to us like a new report.
Starting today, we are asking you to be our eyes and ears. No one is closer to Subaru customers then you, our dealers. An E-QMR, which is available to every dealer through Subarunet, is the best and preferred reporting method. For higher priority or serious issues, you may also call SOA’s Technical Helpline with all details immediately. Again, pictures and videos are really helpful and may be requested when you call in.
The more specific information you can provide the better. Also, if you can let us know before the repair is completed that would be preferred. The Techline Pre-call Worksheets (also located within the Service area of Subaru Solutions) are great tools to use as attachments to your reports. The E-QMR system has been enhanced. It can accept all of the various SDS/ SSMIII file types, digital photos, video clips, and audio clips up to 5MB in size. These types of attachments are invaluable in communicating the condition clearly. In the case of Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs), please make every effort to include the code’s Freeze Frame Data (FFD) and where possible driving files duplicating the code. Every submission is reviewed daily, and we may request additional details, photos, or an on-site inspection. Remember that E-QMR’s are for reporting only. Please note that Authorization request must still go through normal channels.
As with any new model launch, we have extended the warranty parts retention period from 30 to 90 days. This change is really transparent now, as all 2013MY BRZ parts will simply not show up on your scrap report until the specified time has passed. Be sure to save everything including nuts, bolts, clips, and gaskets as the team may want to see everything related to the repair. Please remember to hang onto any vouchers supplied if parts are requested earlier by the team.
We appreciate your support in making this launch another resounding success and thank you in advance for your timely and detailed reporting.

[thill]

I am guessing that many of these are STI owners who have modded their cars? When you mod your car you can expect a shorter lifespan on many things, like the engine.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by thill

I am guessing that many of these are STI owners who have modded their cars? When you mod your car you can expect a shorter lifespan on many things, like the engine.

This. If you don't properly tune the engine it'll break quicker... specially boxer engine. They're extremely picky!

Originally Posted by FRSCoupe

I can't help but notice many head gasket issues reported by owners of Subaru.
cases of spun rod bearing at an seemingly early age , oil consumption etc over at nasioc.com. Many posts about engine rebuilds and many experts over there. NA and turbo car.

That's really the only thing holding me back about the FRS.
If this is going to be a car to be driven spiritedly, I don't want to be too worried about things like high RPM and oil consumption. I also don't want to end up having to rebuild the engine earlier than typical Toyota.

So what is your take on this and subaru boxer engine experience?

Yes, it's true bout rod bearing & oil consumption... but early overhauling the engine, IDK, I never had that problem ('00 Impreza).

BUT are you forgetting something? Toyota only had 1 boxer engine sports car (HachiYota) and rest of sports car, never had one... vs Subaru, almost all their car is boxer engine (depends on where you live).

Rod bearing, we have no idea, cuz this boxer engine is newly design. Only time will tell.

As for oil consumption, recent boxer engine don't have much problem w that one, but it's never ending battle. BUT that's given, how boxer engine is setup.

I can tell you this, all those rod knocking and early engine overhaul were done due to tuning it correctly. Putting bigger turbo and not tuning internal are the most cases for rod knockin' or early overhaul. Most of the time, their excuses were "Oh I didn't know, I need to mod the internal too. My previous xxxxxx (put whatever you want) never needed to do it."

[Guff]

I think Subaru+Toyota will be a match made in heaven for Reliability, Safety, etc.

[Turbowned]

Originally Posted by thill

I am guessing that many of these are STI owners who have modded their cars? When you mod your car you can expect a shorter lifespan on many things, like the engine.

Seriously! I have two friends with STi's that modded and beat the crap out of them, and yes, they both had ringland and head gasket issues at around 80k miles. 80k miles of hard abuse with engines producing 100+ more horsepower than they came from the factory with. Can you really expect them to last forever when you do that? One friends' engine has been rebuilt and is running strong again, and the other will be rebuilt this summer.

[pyro530]

I've been on automotive forum's for about 10 years and I have never heard a whisper about Subaru's boxer being unreliable.
Now their transmissions on the other hand, like the one in the bug eye WRX ... are known for being made of glass. But even looking at that, enough 5k clutch drops in a AWD car with sticky rubber will eventually break something.
Plus the later model WRX transmissions were much more robust.

Now, getting back to the motor. Keep in mind that the engine in the FR-S is 90% new and hasn't been tested. Also keep in mind, there was a ton of development put into both this car and the new boxer motor. The new motor on the FR-S/BRZ is the same basic engine in all new Subaru models going forward.

[luscious]

I own a 2004 FXT, and If I remember right, all those head gasket issues were from pre-2002 cars

I've got 71k miles on my forester, and the engine is great. I do use about 1/2 quart of oil every 3 weeks or so (that's a turbo for ya)
The transmission on my car however, is a different story....

[zberch]

Owned a 2007 forester 2.5 boxer with 50k miles. It was the wife's DD and I honestly hated the thing but after a year and during 8 quarts of oil I talked her into selling it. Father. Just my experience.

[FRSCoupe]

Originally Posted by luscious

I own a 2004 FXT, and If I remember right, all those head gasket issues were from pre-2002 cars

I've got 71k miles on my forester, and the engine is great. I do use about 1/2 quart of oil every 3 weeks or so (that's a turbo for ya)
The transmission on my car however, is a different story....

Being a turbo doesn't mean an engine should consume oil unless you have a bad seal.

I don't know how much you drive in 3 weeks but 1/2 qt of oil might be acceptable between oil change interval for a 70k mile engine.

Also I read something about in the BRZ manual, Subaru would only consider an engine warranty issue if it consumes something like 1.1 qt per 600 miles, seems like a little loose in their tolerance. No one really enjoys putting in 1/4 qt oil everytime you fill up the gas.

[pyro530]

Originally Posted by FRSCoupe

Being a turbo doesn't mean an engine should consume oil unless you have a bad seal.

I don't know how much you drive in 3 weeks but 1/2 qt of oil might be acceptable between oil change interval for a 70k mile engine.

Also I read something about in the BRZ manual, Subaru would only consider an engine warranty issue if it consumes something like 1.1 qt per 600 miles, seems like a little loose in their tolerance. No one really enjoys putting in 1/4 qt oil everytime you fill up the gas.

I'm sorry to say I disagree. I've owned two turbo cars, the Neon and a 2nd gen eclipse. Both pushed oil out of the PCV valve into the intake while under boost. Noting a simple oil catch can can't fix.

[mankarn86]

If this is any indicator LOL

http://jalopnik.com/5915955/this-sub...r-three-months

[getbent]

I owned a 2005 Subaru Legacy GT from new to ~120K miles. First 60K on Mobil 1 5W-30 and the last 60K on Rotella 5W-40. It never burned any noticeable amount of oil between changes at 3500 miles. Still had the original Turbo and never an engine problem the whole time I owned it.

Just prior to selling it, at ~118K, the clutch throwout bearing started making noise, so I had the entire clutch replaced, but otherwise a very reliable car.

[blu_]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

I can tell you this, all those rod knocking and early engine overhaul were done due to tuning it correctly. Putting bigger turbo and not tuning internal are the most cases for rod knockin' or early overhaul. Most of the time, their excuses were "Oh I didn't know, I need to mod the internal too. My previous xxxxxx (put whatever you want) never needed to do it."

Not exactly true. I just ran a mild tune on my STI (cobb stg 1) and had bearing issues. It was probably due to oiling issues, which boxers are known for, as the problem started the day after being in a crappy situation on a mountain pass... sitting for hours in a line of semi's going up a mountain at walking speed. Subaru covered a rebuild under warranty. The new motor popped in 4k miles (one of the new bearings failed and went into the head) and I just traded it in, because they wanted to rebuild it again, as opposed to giving me a new longblock.

There is no question in my mind that the 07, 08, and probably newer models were not made as well as the first several years STI's that came out. I know too many people who totally abuse their 04's with no issues, while guys with newer models who baby them have major issues.

But yeah time will tell on this motor.

edit: Also note that I never had ringland issues, which is usually the first thing that goes out when you have a crappy tune or are running too much boost.