In Love With My RSR Black-i Coilovers!

[SmsAlSuwaidi]

Originally Posted by diss7

Pillowball can be a pain in a street car.

These can get 1.5 camber. Which is ideal for the street. Add some camber bolts for track day for $50, to get 2.5deg.

This is so true, I have -4 without bolts, but they are a pain.

[boxer 2.5]

These are $1900? Yikes. Better start saving now because those things look amazing.

[Moto-P]

Originally Posted by SmsAlSuwaidi

i really don't see the point of "Lowering" oriented coilovers that lack top hats for some proper front camber

Yes, for a person looking to get more dynamic performance oriented coilover, RSR does offer Sports-i which are great for Sunday track duties, Autocross, and sporting runs on radials to semi-racing compounds. These Black-i are comfort oriented suspension that can be rasied a bit for the track but catering to some of you who want the ultimate lowered look as well.

The inherent issue more in the lowering of more than 30mm is the overall suspension design of the FR-S/BRZ which are short toe control arms and lower arm, and in the rear, also the short shock mount dimensions. That's something that can't really be changed by any shocks from anywhere, and is more up to the user to correct them by use of aftermarket arms.
We are working on a lower arm to alleviate the biggest issue, which are the lower arms in the rear, and toe control arms, which also use bushings, with an option for hard pillow joints, as well as revised shock mounting point over stock that extends the rear shock mount location to increase the stroke range. That will come early next year I am hoping.

All said and done though, RS*R is adamant about giving a comfortable street performance with both sets, and as I have mentioned in the other articles, that FRS/BRZ does not need excessively high spring rates for performance, being that it is a car with extremely good weight balance, and center of gravity being very low, and most of the package weight in the middle of the car, we actually need fairly low spring rates to help make the car dive and lean easier for better controlled weight transfer, and dynamically shift the weight over all four contact patch to make it grip and handle predictably on street radials and semi-racing compound tires. Most manufacturers still use high spring rates derived from formulas for more inherently unbalanced cars, but cars like FD3S, NSX and FRS all need otherwise. And only makes that participate in true racing programs can really understand the requirements for each application.

Black-i is a 55mm drop compatible design, and only because customers demand it these days, and therefore we have designed it to give that level of drop, with comfort and decent performance in mind, with careful balance of curtailing inherent issues at this level of drop. It isn't meant to be ultra-high performance which are at more 20~30mm drop levels, but since we don't want to use the same shocks and mounts for dropping it lower with Sports-i, we have the Black-i to better tailor to those who want it lower on 18 and 19" application street cars.

There isn't a perfect solution just by coil-over design at over 35mm drop, and Black-i are designed to be custom tailored to such application so there are less compromises than what normally would be the issue with trying to go that low on standard sports coilovers available elsewhere, with custom piston and case length ideal for this, as well as spring rates and stroke range, that are correct to riding at such low height.

[Moto-P]

Originally Posted by boxer 2.5

These are $1900? Yikes. Better start saving now because those things look amazing.

Yes, and only alternative that compares would be Ohlins mono-tube, that are custom valved and short-stroked to fit the FRS and that would run about $4500+...

So yeah $1900 are pretty good in my opinion. The i-Shock family of coilovers, when it was introduced several years ago, was $3200 MSRP at start. With the combination of getting favorable Dollar to JPY exchange in currency, and production efficiency gained at RSR with even better precision machinery in Osaka, Japan, they've been able to drop this cost to $1799, for Sports-i for FRS and Black-i, at $1899..which is $100 because it also comes with stabilizer links that are needed to correct the sway-bar (stabilizers) at over 35mm drop.

[jumbaco]

awesome write up! Those look to be some really high quality pieces.

[armythug]

For the person that is building a solid DD with a nice drop, these coilovers would have been perfect. Just needed to have the option for more camber imo.

[Enraged21]

Can these be paired with aftermarket camber plates? @Moto-P

[diss7]

At this height, are you able to align the rear toe to zero? Or are aftermarket toearms required?

[diss7]

I've bought a set of these, and some Whiteline toe arms incase I need the adjustment.

Although these are seen as being primarily focused on a street/slam system, I'll be testing them on the track to see how they go.

My goal is to have a quiet comfortable good looking street car, that you can become a track day weapon with after an alignment and putting semi slicks on.

[Enraged21]

let us know what you think of them @diss7

[FLIPs_FR-S]

@peteralfonso awesome review!! I believe I'm gonna get these or the sporti. Leaning more toward the sporti I think though. I really doubt I'll ever wanna go lower than 2"

Sent from SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE. KEEP CALM AND CHIVE ON.

[Moto-P]

Originally Posted by OICU812

I've directly compared the (I) version of these to kwv3 prior to purchasing kws. I personally felt over the harsher bumps the kws simply handled them better even at default rates, the rsr were at full soft btw to compare. Since then I've changed kws from default and it's even better now. The package per dollar on the rsr is good though can't take that away from them.

The KW-V3 are excellent damper system too, and its design is very European minded. The biggest factor for the KW-V3 is the fact that they are twin-tube damper and the cartridge brackets are designed with spring perch adjustment only, which has a primary purpose of adjusting the preload on the coilover, and NOT the height adjustment (the latter being the secondary side effect of adjusting the perch).

The RSR Black-i and Sport-i has both the spring perch (preload) adjustment, and a cartridge height adjustment for adjusting height, independent of the spring preload, enabling the ride-height to be adjusted while retaining the piston travel range and optimum cartridge position.

So all that being said, the KW-V3 are excellent performer, with dual-adjust for rebound and compression, for a very experienced motorsport oriented driver/mechanic to tune the unit for a very exacting performance goals. However, the limitation is that both height and preload for the spring can only be adjusted through one perch adjustment, and that limits the optimum capability to happen only at a very narrow range of ideal design height of the KW's, and outside of this ride-height range, the piston will go out of ideal range, going lower than that will result in short insufficient compression travel, and higher would result in short extension range. So it is really suited for track and autocross users whose goal is to use it at the recommended height, and using the perch to corner weight, and preload the suspension within the parameters designed with the KW. The default rates for the KW is very compliant at recommended height, I should add.

The RSR approach is a bit different. The mono-tube design has a much more progressive damping character than a more linear KW twin tube. This design can soak up smaller movements very compliantly, giving a much perceived softer ride, while the overall compression and rebound damping is set actually higher. A more linear valve like KW Twin Tube is easier to precisely setup for the track, since it's straight-forward in forces. But while it's pinpoint to the specific setup, that won't ideally cover a wider range of use, without constant adjustment to suit each situation and stage. RSR uses the mono-tube wide range progressive damping, so that even at higher valve setting, the initial and small motions are soaked up more compliantly, and still maintains composure on higher and longer forces and inputs. So the RSR requires less fiddling to match well to a lot of different scenarios, while being not as exact as KW's when the KW are precisely adjusted.

So competition users may benefit from KW's if the user knows with experience, what he/she is doing and can and able to adjust the dual controlled valves.

For most others, the RSR's approach covers a very easily controlled, and very comfortable overall driving character that is poised on sporting driving, while retaining a better compliance than stock (which is a twin-tube also), and giving it more of a expensive refined road-car feel akin to a street spec Porsche or BMW, and not so much a race car. And the ride height is much more flexible in adjustment for visual or dynamic change, since it can be adjusted by the cartridge bracket position, rather than at the spring perch, allowing the stoke of the cartridge to be unaffected with height change.

So it's not a comparison of KW-V3 being better or worse than RSR Sports-i/Black-i, but rather, what your goals and intents are with the coil-over systems.

If you are a seasoned driver and avid and primarily using it for ultimate motorsport use. The KW while height range ideal is limited, can be setup to cater to finer levels of track, given the tuner/driver has the experience to play with dual-valve, twin-tube setups. And it can be compliant with adjustments.


If you are sort of in need of a more compliant street car with occasional motorsport use, the RSR will cover a lot of the range without much adjustment after you find your setting. And things stay a bit less jittery on the road with rubber upper and lower mounts, and without the use of hard joint, and by nature of it being a more expensive and progressive mono-tube system.

The Black-i is basically a shortened version of the Sport-i.
Where some of the sporting capability of the Sport-i is sacrificed, in favor of a more visual drop element. And IF you do have this priority to LOWER the car, the Black-i has everything possible in shock/spring design to allow you that... Of course, SOME of the sporting character will be sacrificed through arms and pivots of the car going out of ideal range at allowed extremes for which this Black-i was designed, but within this given limits, the Black-i is designed to give you what Sports-i or most any other shocks can't do...
That is because the Black-i is designed for those who will live with the limitations but allows the BEST situation while the car is riding this low. By the way, also, if you RAISE the Black-i to its highest setting for the FRS, the capabilities of the car will come back, and it is fine for sports use at that height... something like 30mm below stock, where arms and dynamic alignment is closer to ideal.

So for choosing between Black-i and Sports-i
Here are some guidelines.
Sports-i allows sports use adjustment from 6mm over stock, to 35mm below stock, and designed for the purpose of a performance enhancement and refinement of the roadcar.

Black-i allows for ride adjustments from about 30mm below to 55mm below stock, with option of going up to 80mm below stock if you have channeling, cutting, clearing and hammering the wheel wells for making a road-sled lowrider. For the hobbyist who just have to have it low.

And both are designed for car builders who just want the good balance of the car being a good road-car.

Hummm, after reading the above... I seem to be rambling in the morning hours.... I hope some of you can make sense of this and put it to use.

[FLIPs_FR-S]

@Moto-P wow! I believe I actually unerstood 97% of your reply. I'm new to the sports car and mod world especially.

I had pretty much decided on an RSR set up, as I said in the post before yours, but I believe I'm gonna go with the black i system now. I'm looking to get at least 51mm lower than stock and if I were ever to head to the track I could just raise it back up. Awesome.

Are there any suggestions and far as other suspension mods I should buy to accommodate a 2" drop? I'd really like to save up and buy it all at once and have it done properly the first time

Sent from SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE. KEEP CALM AND CHIVE ON.

[diss7]

Well I spent the day using a mates hoist to put a few parts on today. One being the black-i coilovers.

I've only driven the car around the block, and back home; but haven't had a chance to beat on as I had the dog in the car, and a heap of car parts as well.

Very happy all round. Packaging excellent. Build quality excellent. Only had Japanese instructions but a quick google search and I found the English ones.

Adjust the camber top was a 2minute job. I took a pic which shows one done, and one about to be done, it's 4 quick bolts.

Installation was a breeze, no complaints.

Drive home on full hard, was comfy as. I'll go for a drive later with them softened up and see how that feels.

I liked how the instructions told you how to set the coilover for a desired height. I went 50mm lower in the front, 55mm in the back. Wanted to see how that drove first, make sure it would clear the bumps/driveways I needed it to. I might try it at 60f 65r as I think looks wise that would be perfect. But I'll run 50f 55r for a few weeks.

Track review to come next week.

Less talk more pics



















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