FRS Track Build

[smoltz]

Started doing HPDE w/ BMWCCA and Porsche (in my Porsche 996 Turbo). I've done about a half dozen events so far. Really enjoying it, but trying to decide if I want to continue with my 911 Turbo or get something that's a little cheaper to run. In looking at vehicles with a lower cost of operation, came across the BRZ\FRS. Seems like it would be a good platform.

If I were to head in this direction, I would buy a new FRS, and then spend 10-15k (parts only) to get it ready for track use, focussed on safety, longevity and performance. I've read a bunch on the forum and have some ideas of my own, but wanted to just put the question out there and see what folks thought, where should I spend my money? In terms of requirements, car will be for use at HPDE for the next few seasons, I need to be able to drive it to the track but likely won't see any extended street use other than that. In general, I'd rather do fewer high quality upgrades and then as budget allows go wider than try and do a million things and cut corners everywhere to hit a price point.

[Racecomp Engineering]

There are a ton of options for you and some of them are good ones.

One idea is to talk to @AZP Installs as they may not be too far from you and could likely do a full prep.

We could do that as well (and sometimes do track instruction) but we're a bit of a farther haul. Glad to help you with parts and advice though.

Oil cooler, quality suspension work tuned right, and a big brake kit. Add seats and a cage or a roll bar and harnesses if you're that serious. If you're relatively new to the track do a season on good street tires that can take some heat, but don't jump into r compounds just yet. Go have fun and learn.

- Andy

[Sleepless]

996 Turbo can be made into a nice street/track car and if you consider the cost of a the BRZ, I think you'd be money ahead by sticking with the Turbo.

However, I have a 993 Turbo that is track prepped very similarly to my BRZ and can say the BRZ is more fun and has improved my driving immensely simply because I feel more at ease driving it at the limit, and to be fast, you have to drive it at the limit. With a Turbo, it is all too easy to lean on the power and AWD when all the fun is in the corners! So, for that reason, I'd recommend the BRZ

Also, I recommend never going to R compounds for HPDE. The 200TW tires are only a bit less sticky, but they communicate a lot better, last a lot longer and are much more street friendly; thus eliminating the need for changing tires between street/track. AD08s and Star Specs are quite good, as are several other tires. I used to run R comps, but now only run these; way more fun!

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by smoltz

Started doing HPDE w/ BMWCCA and Porsche (in my Porsche 996 Turbo). I've done about a half dozen events so far. Really enjoying it, but trying to decide if I want to continue with my 911 Turbo or get something that's a little cheaper to run. In looking at vehicles with a lower cost of operation, came across the BRZ\FRS. Seems like it would be a good platform.

If I were to head in this direction, I would buy a new FRS, and then spend 10-15k (parts only) to get it ready for track use, focussed on safety, longevity and performance. I've read a bunch on the forum and have some ideas of my own, but wanted to just put the question out there and see what folks thought, where should I spend my money? In terms of requirements, car will be for use at HPDE for the next few seasons, I need to be able to drive it to the track but likely won't see any extended street use other than that. In general, I'd rather do fewer high quality upgrades and then as budget allows go wider than try and do a million things and cut corners everywhere to hit a price point.

Safety is one of those "all of nothing" situations. If you do all the safety equipment, your street driving safety will be a bit compromised, and for HPDE, I'm of the opinion that a full OEM safety system is quite versatile.

I'd recommend this for your build:

- Roll bar
- OEM belts/seat/airbags
- BBK
- Wheels of your choice to clear the BBK
- Tires of your choice (I'd recommend a compound you're familiar with for your first set, and then try one preferred for this platform)
- Suspension kit that suits your driving style; @Raceseng is fairly close to you and has a lovely Penske setup that will be released soon.
- Rear lower control arms.

If you want to add some more feedback, replace all rubber suspension bushings with solids/sphericals, or add solid inserts.

If you'd like more power, several options are available, but forced induction will take you pretty close to the top of your budget. A nice header and tune will cost less, produce less heat, and have virtually no issues.

[smoltz]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

There are a ton of options for you and some of them are good ones.

One idea is to talk to @AZP Installs as they may not be too far from you and could likely do a full prep.

We could do that as well (and sometimes do track instruction) but we're a bit of a farther haul. Glad to help you with parts and advice though.

Oil cooler, quality suspension work tuned right, and a big brake kit. Add seats and a cage or a roll bar and harnesses if you're that serious. If you're relatively new to the track do a season on good street tires that can take some heat, but don't jump into r compounds just yet. Go have fun and learn.

- Andy

Thanks, I'll reach out to them. I have some friends in DC that I visit periodically, so your shop isn't out of the question either. Good info.

Originally Posted by Sleepless

996 Turbo can be made into a nice street/track car and if you consider the cost of a the BRZ, I think you'd be money ahead by sticking with the Turbo.

However, I have a 993 Turbo that is track prepped very similarly to my BRZ and can say the BRZ is more fun and has improved my driving immensely simply because I feel more at ease driving it at the limit, and to be fast, you have to drive it at the limit. With a Turbo, it is all too easy to lean on the power and AWD when all the fun is in the corners! So, for that reason, I'd recommend the BRZ

Also, I recommend never going to R compounds for HPDE. The 200TW tires are only a bit less sticky, but they communicate a lot better, last a lot longer and are much more street friendly; thus eliminating the need for changing tires between street/track. AD08s and Star Specs are quite good, as are several other tires. I used to run R comps, but now only run these; way more fun!

Yeah, I'm torn, the 996 Turbo isn't a terrible track platform and certainly a fast car with the right driver (not me :-)), but as you mention, learning on something more balanced, lower power, RWD, it's a good experience. The 996 Turbo from a brakes, power, cooling standpoint is pretty solid. Factory suspension and seats are pretty weak in the grand scheme of things and I'll have to weld the coolant pipes (engine out job) if I decide to continue doing a considerable number of events per year. Yeah, I won't rush into R comps.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Safety is one of those "all of nothing" situations. If you do all the safety equipment, your street driving safety will be a bit compromised, and for HPDE, I'm of the opinion that a full OEM safety system is quite versatile.

I'd recommend this for your build:

- Roll bar
- OEM belts/seat/airbags
- BBK
- Wheels of your choice to clear the BBK
- Tires of your choice (I'd recommend a compound you're familiar with for your first set, and then try one preferred for this platform)
- Suspension kit that suits your driving style; @Raceseng is fairly close to you and has a lovely Penske setup that will be released soon.
- Rear lower control arms.

If you want to add some more feedback, replace all rubber suspension bushings with solids/sphericals, or add solid inserts.

If you'd like more power, several options are available, but forced induction will take you pretty close to the top of your budget. A nice header and tune will cost less, produce less heat, and have virtually no issues.

Thanks! Is there a bolt in roll bar that folks like for these cars and is reasonably priced? Do I need to look at any additional cooling upgrades with the factory power output?

[derek1ee]

Which roll bar do you recommend, or would you only consider custom fab ones? I've seen for example cantrell making some nice ones for 991, but haven't seen any good ones for the twin.

[strat61caster]

Are you really looking at a >$10k build for a caged track rat or just a casual weekend warrior to save your Porsche the wear and tear?

Arguably you could beat on this thing for a very long time for less than $5k and comfortably drive it back and forth to the track if you keep the stock suspension, brake calipers, don't add a roll bar, keep the OEM size tires etc.

Just making sure OP really wants to throw the kitchen sink at it, with $15k you could pretty much upgrade every component that somebody has billed as an upgrade unless you buy big name on certain items (wheels + BBK + suspension + FI can sail well past $20k if you're determined).

[smoltz]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Are you really looking at a >$10k build for a caged track rat or just a casual weekend warrior to save your Porsche the wear and tear?

Arguably you could beat on this thing for a very long time for less than $5k and comfortably drive it back and forth to the track if you keep the stock suspension, brake calipers, don't add a roll bar, keep the OEM size tires etc.

Just making sure OP really wants to throw the kitchen sink at it, with $15k you could pretty much upgrade every component that somebody has billed as an upgrade unless you buy big name on certain items (wheels + BBK + suspension + FI can sail well past $20k if you're determined).

I am a weekend warrior. Yeah, pretty much just don't want the wear and tear on the Porsche. I'm not hell bent on spending a particular amount of money. Just want to get the important stuff tackled up front and know what I am in for ahead of time and understand where the areas that need attention are on this platform for use as a track car.

[Sleepless]

Originally Posted by derek1ee

Which roll bar do you recommend, or would you only consider custom fab ones? I've seen for example cantrell making some nice ones for 991, but haven't seen any good ones for the twin.

Cantrell makes a bar for the twins too; I have one

[Sleepless]

Originally Posted by smoltz

I am a weekend warrior. Yeah, pretty much just don't want the wear and tear on the Porsche. I'm not hell bent on spending a particular amount of money. Just want to get the important stuff tackled up front and know what I am in for ahead of time and understand where the areas that need attention are on this platform for use as a track car.

Nice thing is that you can start stock (not the brake pads or fluid and not the tires) and enjoy modding it; very fun Given the half dozen days of experience you have, I'd just get some Torque 700 brake fluid, Carbotech XP12 pads some 8x17 wheels and TW200 tires and go from there.

[juliog]

Originally Posted by Sleepless

Also, I recommend never going to R compounds for HPDE. The 200TW tires are only a bit less sticky, but they communicate a lot better, last a lot longer and are much more street friendly; thus eliminating the need for changing tires between street/track. AD08s and Star Specs are quite good, as are several other tires. I used to run R comps, but now only run these; way more fun!

I kinda disagree on this, RC-1 or NT-01 (not "real" r-comps by some standards) are about as fast as today's cream of the crop TW200 tires (RS3, RE-71R) but are way more consistent throughout a 20 minute session, so you can do hot lap after hot lap without having to baby them as much.

I would pick RC1/NT01 for a dedicated HPDE car... though I'd only recommend them to experienced drivers, as they are more forgiving than street tires and mask bad driving more easily.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by smoltz

I am a weekend warrior. Yeah, pretty much just don't want the wear and tear on the Porsche. I'm not hell bent on spending a particular amount of money. Just want to get the important stuff tackled up front and know what I am in for ahead of time and understand where the areas that need attention are on this platform for use as a track car.

Aimed at newbs but shows how little is required for this car, and apologies if my ramblings cover shit you already know, I'm in a mood.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25485

Bare minimum required:
Brake pads and fluid

Bare minimum suggested:
Alignment

Bare minimum optional:
Oil cooler

The OEM brakes are sized well enough, if you are confident braking on the limit (especially in the Porsche, either on the ABS or trying to stay just under ABS activation) you will fry the OEM pads within laps. You can pickup some race pads for ~$400, and some decent brake fluid for <$50 that should be more than enough to stop you all day long. Depending on your skill you would upgrade to a 'big brake kit' to reduce the cost of replacing the pads with a more common shape and hopefully make them last a bit longer.

The front end does not have enough camber, it will eat the outside edge of the tire on track. Since this car is cheap it's not adjustable from the factory, cheap solution is camber/crash bolts (easy to google) for <$50 should get you up to a passable -1 degree. With a coilover setup and/or camber plates you can get closer to ideal for track usage which is -2 degrees or more but then it becomes up to you how far you want to go (aforementioned Penske's or off the shelf budget Bilsteins for the street?). Toe is pretty straightforward, zero up front and a bit of toe-in rear is simple for any shop to do, but it should be passable from the factory, make sure you're not doing a quickee place where a bit of toe-out is considered 'in spec' and they don't get it right, spend the money for a good enthusiast shop imo.

Oil cooler is dependent on what makes you feel comfortable, lots of people have measured very high oil temperatures (>260F is not unheard of at high rpm even in street condition) and there have been cases of engines failing to oil the crankshaft bearings adequately (although that hasn't been isolated to track use, it may be temperature unrelated), I'm not sure of any known oil temperature related problems, only that many claim it's absolutely necessary. I'm of the opinion that on stock power it would only be needed in a hot climate (>90F ambient) but my opinion is worth jack on this matter.

After that it's all personal choice what you upgrade next, some thoughts on the typical 'must haves' for some people:

The factory rubber is uninspiring but durable and hilarious to slide around in and can certainly withstand at least a few days on track (I chucked mine at 30k miles, 2x track days, and in hindsight I could probably still be running them) tires will be the biggest 'go faster' upgrade for the money, lighter wheels is always a bonus, wider wheel/tire will increase your corner speed but hurt your top speed on the straights because the car is on the low end of power, it seems to usually result in a faster lap though. I'm saving my wheel upgrade for when I add power a few years down the road, 200TW tires in OEM size (215/45/17) are more than adequate and only run me about $650 a set for Direzza ZII SS mounted up and installed. But on the positive side, lots of noise was made about how you can fit a set of tires mounted up in the back when you go to a track day, so if you want to do fat R-comps you don't have to break your back figuring out the logistics or driving on them to the track..

Coilovers will reduce what little body roll exists and gain better balance but the factory suspension is up to the task for the most part tuned to a hint of understeer if you drive it textbook perfect and with a back end that steps out progressively if you dance with it the right way or make a mistake.

Other people can comment on other things (moh powah?) but this is how far I've gotten, I've spent about $1.5k so far and I've just ordered camber plates to bring it up to ~$2.1k (the lack of camber is killing me at AutoX, early christmas present to myself, I was planning on waiting out the year) and my 5th track day will be in September with about 7x AutoX runs on the side. After lower control arms in the rear to dial that in (a nice to have, not a must have) I'll probably be looking at coilovers for winter '16, wheels for '17, supercharger for '18, and if anything I might go slower on the mods if my skills aren't progressing fast enough. Best of luck and hope you have a good time out there whatever you decide.




Edit: Oh yeah maintenance! It will be cheaper than the Porsche for sure and the intervals are relatively long at 7.5k miles for the regular fluid changes and inspections, since my track duty is light I'm really only putting 1-2 track days and 2-4 autoX on an oil change so I'm just sticking to what's in the manual, with the major flushes and inspections 30k miles (tranny, diff), 60k coolant, brake fluid once/year.

[Sleepless]

Originally Posted by juliog

I kinda disagree on this, RC-1 or NT-01 (not "real" r-comps by some standards) are about as fast as today's cream of the crop TW200 tires (RS3, RE-71R) but are way more consistent throughout a 20 minute session, so you can do hot lap after hot lap without having to baby them as much.

I would pick RC1/NT01 for a dedicated HPDE car... though I'd only recommend them to experienced drivers, as they are more forgiving than street tires and mask bad driving more easily.

I haven't had any consistency issues with the AD08s or the Star Specs even in 30 minute sessions in 85F weather and driving them right on the edge... RE11As did have some consistency issues, but then so do R888s which are "r-comps".

But yes, I love the NT01s; super consistent and a good 2sec faster at the Ridge Motorsports Park. But, I personally have more fun with the AD08s/Star Specs. They aren't as sticky so I makes the car that much more enjoyable for me and they last about twice as long for roughly the same price.

[Pat]

Wait...you're saying on the track NT01s last half as long as AD08s/Star Specs? And you're driving the car at it's limit? That's tough for me to believe.