Future Buyer with Questions (difference in year, Subaru/Toyota, things I should know)

[jtice]

I am planning to purchase a Subaru BRZ (or possible Toyota 86) by next spring.
I have started my research on them, like I do everything I purchase, but I have a few questions still.

My plans and purpose for the car...
This will not be my only vehicle, and I am basically buying it for pure fun.
I plan to drive it a good bit though, on some trips several states away, such as down in the twisty roads of the Smokies (Tail of the dragon)
And I also plan to do some autocross with it.

Questions:
I cant seem to find much info at all on what was changed over the years on these cars.
I am getting the feeling that very very little was changed from 13 to 16. Is that correct?
It seems a decent bit changed in 17 though, especially when it comes to handling? Per this post.

I test drove a new 17 Toyota 86, and LOVED IT. Wow can it handle. Sure, it could use more power, but wouldnt go as far as calling it under powered. One day, I would probably turbo it.
Anyway... Getting a new one is out of my budget ($20k max) So I have been looking at the used BRZs. Though I maaaay be able to find a deal on a used 17 within budget.
I figure for the 4 to 5 grand I safe buying used, I could get some upgrades for it to make it handle like the 17? Or have they changed more than just the handling?

The post I linked, mentioned they may have also changed how the VSC works, thats not something I could change later myself with bolt ons.

- Mainly wanting some advice on what the differences are over the years.
- What the difference between a BRZ and 86 of the same year would be (other than looks)
- What I should know or be thinking about when looking for when I select the car I will buy.

Thanks

[pkolanko]

Not much changed from 13-16. Minor things that you won't really notice too much. However, 17s have been updated a lot. I looked at a 2017 series yellow and had the dealership down to $27,500 plus tax, but decided on a 2015 series blue with 1500 miles for $21,000. If it's not your daily driver, like mine, I don't think it warrants spending all that extra money to get a car that just has been "updated". Just like all cars, they get a little bit better with each model year, but does it warrant an extra $8k-$10k for the improvements? The 2013-2016 are still awesome cars. Mine puts a smile on my face every time I drive it.

I am not really a fan of the FR-S. I think the BRZ is the better looking car, but that's just my two cents.

My suggestion on the used one is make sure it's a low mileage, one-owner with minimal (if any) mods. Multiple owners and tons of mods means the previous owner(s) got bored with it and/or drove it into the ground. Find a 65-year old owner who drove it on Sundays in the summer, garaged it, and barely put any miles on it.

Best of luck! You will not regret the purchase!

[Spuds]

Pre-2015 brz had nicer interior and more "stable" suspension setup as I recall. FRS was a (very tiny) bit more tail happy. I think I heard Toyota changed the setup in 15 to be closer to Subaru but that was after I already got mine so I wasn't paying much attention.

Some will say the 13s are less reliable, but I haven't had any problems with mine.

Whatever you get, I recommend just driving it for a while before you try changing things.

That's all the semi useful info I have, I'm sure others will be able to answer more thoroughly.

[LudwigMiles]

Originally Posted by jtice

Sure, it could use more power, but wouldnt go as far as calling it under powered. One day, I would probably turbo it.
Anyway...

During the test drive, did you shift the car at 6000, and keep the revs above 4000 at all times. If not, you don't need turbo, you need to learn about how to drive a sports car.

[LudwigMiles]

Originally Posted by jtice

Anyway... Getting a new one is out of my budget ($20k max) So I have been looking at the used BRZs. Though I maaaay be able to find a deal on a used 17 within budget.

If buying used, forget years, colors, options, etc. Get the nicest, least abused, least modded, most adult owned example you can find.

[jtice]

Originally Posted by LudwigMiles

During the test drive, did you shift the car at 6000, and keep the revs above 4000 at all times. If not, you don't need turbo, you need to learn about how to drive a sports car.

Oh no, trust me, I ran the piss out of it. Even banged it off the rev limiter twice.
Yes, all the power is above 5000, but that is to be expected from this type of engine.
Again, I cant call it under powered at all. But on the highway, or heading up a steep on ramp, it could stand a bit more.
ONE day, I would end up slapping a turbo on it, its not NEEDED to make the car fun by any means.

[LudwigMiles]

Originally Posted by jtice

I figure for the 4 to 5 grand I safe buying used, I could get some upgrades for it to make it handle like the 17? Or have they changed more than just the handling?

The post I linked, mentioned they may have also changed how the VSC works, thats not something I could change later myself with bolt ons.

Forget VSC and other details.

Do not mod your car for at least a year.
First, make it mechanically sorted and reliable.

Take it to the track and start to learn how to drive.
You will quickly learn mods are pointless until you reach the limits of the car.
Unless you want a drag car, you will almost never reach the limits of the car.

[jtice]

Originally Posted by LudwigMiles

Forget VSC and other details.

Do not mod your car for at least a year.
First, make it mechanically sorted and reliable.

Take it to the track and start to learn how to drive.
You will quickly learn mods are pointless until you reach the limits of the car.
Unless you want a drag car, you will almost never reach the limits of the car.

I completely get what you are saying.
Please dont mistake this for me wanting to slap every damn mod I can find on ebay on this car. I am not about that at all.
My thing is, I am very particular on what foundation I start with. I do like regretting getting the "wrong" or "lower" model when a couple years down the road it would have been better to get the newer or better one.
I hope to keep this care a long time. Mod it tastefully over time to fit my needs.

So I just want to learn all I can before the purchase, so I know all the differences, and how options might have changed or been improved.

[Mr.ac]

I would look into getting one with the premium stuff like hid lights and reverse camera options. Other wise you'll be hunting down extra parts/ installation hassles and extra money. Might as well get that done and taken care of in one go.

[PhyrraM]

My thoughts...

If you plan on doing any suspension upgrades, most of the non-cosmetic '17 updates and differences between the early FRS and BRZ will be negated. The car will take on the character of the suspension chosen (and associated suspension tuning).

The '17+ manual transmission cars have 5+ more HP (yawn), but more importantly seem to have a narrower, but steeper, torque dip when compared to the earlier cars. Pick your poison.

I'm a simple guy and don't like/need many modern features, but never having to get your key out (BRZ limited, FRS specials) is pretty addicting.

Plan every mod carefully, as it's easy to ruin cars that drive as well as these do - without even realizing it.

[LudwigMiles]

Originally Posted by jtice

Oh no, trust me, I ran the piss out of it. Even banged it off the rev limiter twice.
Yes, all the power is above 5000, but that is to be expected from this type of engine.
Again, I cant call it under powered at all. But on the highway, or heading up a steep on ramp, it could stand a bit more.
ONE day, I would end up slapping a turbo on it, its not NEEDED to make the car fun by any means.

Glad you get it.
On the exit ramp, did you downshift 2 gears to keep it above 4000?
I find this car has all the power I need, when operated correctly.

Of course, if you want to get whiplash when you floor it,
it may not be the car for you.

[LudwigMiles]

Originally Posted by jtice

I completely get what you are saying.
Please dont mistake this for me wanting to slap every damn mod I can find on ebay on this car. I am not about that at all.
My thing is, I am very particular on what foundation I start with. I do like regretting getting the "wrong" or "lower" model when a couple years down the road it would have been better to get the newer or better one.
I hope to keep this care a long time. Mod it tastefully over time to fit my needs.

So I just want to learn all I can before the purchase, so I know all the differences, and how options might have changed or been improved.

Got it. Good for you.
It seems like there are differences, but not major.
Since you have a budget, an older car will be cheaper.
Buy the nicest cleanest one you can find.
Pay more for it, if you must.
THAT is what you will never regret.

Cleaning up some idiot's mess is something you will regret.
Plus, it will cost you more in the long run.

[NeverInTime]

Thread here with details on the changes to the '17 model: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103185

Long story short, the '17 feels a bit quicker with slightly better handling, and the backup camera is standard on all models for this model year too. There have been a number of guys here who traded in their older FR-S/BRZs for the '17 models and loved them.

If you are planning to mod it down the line, getting a used car would make more sense. You can easily mod your car to your tastes, but I would definitely drive it a decent amount before doing that to determine what you really want. A lot of those guys who traded in their older FR-S/BRZs came from modded cars, and got a '17 because they missed the stock feel and/or 'ruined' their cars via mods.

[TwistedGray]

I'll contribute to this thread as a 304 [semi]native.

I disagree with some of the rhetoric that buying a car that has been modified is a 100% no-go, or buying a car from a similarly young person is a no-go.

Neither are true by themselves! I bet if you polled all of the active members, more than half of them would fall under the age of 40 and more than half of them have some modification to their car. If I was a betting man, I would say it's more than three quarters for both.

Instead of trying to find that "unmodified" car spend more time talking with the owner about what they have used the car for, how they drive it, what maintenance history they have with the car, etc. Ask probing questions!