Visconti vs FA20Club vs Stock Tune Dyno Results

[2forme]

Originally Posted by tonystewart

2forme, you are returning your Airaid intake?

Yup, sent it back yesterday. I need something that runs correctly on the stock tune.

[tonystewart]

I understand, thank you

[avp1]

Originally Posted by 2forme

Placebo?

I'm willing to bet you won't be posting in my thread once I put up my own dynos.

Like I said, stay away, enjoy the 20ft-lb dip, enjoy 28mpg. I'll enjoy mine

I think tuners should work on eliminating torque hole in 3-4.5K RPM range. If someone figures out how to get I'd of it, it will be the best tuning option for that car besides forced injection. Everything else seems to be mostly placebo. Designers squeezed almost last drop of power from than engine in its factory form.

[2forme]

Originally Posted by tonystewart

I understand, thank you

No worries, I'm still gonna borrow one for my dyno comparison with aFe.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by avp1

I think tuners should work on eliminating torque hole in 3-4.5K RPM range. If someone figures out how to get I'd of it, it will be the best tuning option for that car besides forced injection. Everything else seems to be mostly placebo. Designers squeezed almost last drop of power from than engine in its factory form.

I just sit back, look at this Dyno sheet and scratch my head wondering what exactly is Placebo about it?

FYI that's stock vs STG 1 pump gas vs E85 tunes.... Visconti.

[ngabdala]

cool I'm near Springfield lol

Originally Posted by 2forme

Unfortunately I'll be at a wedding on that day, but maybe we'll meet up some time and you can check it out. I'm just outside of Boston.

[ngabdala]

I don't have the time right now to find any threads. Here is one though:

http://afepower.com/shop/details_new...as&&brandID=78

Originally Posted by brichard0625

Really i havent come across a coldair thread yet..do u know what company(s) are producing them..and i agree with you 100% thats what im waiting to do mods...all i did was order pulley and the rest im going to wait for and see if some if these prices go down

[dsgerbc]

Originally Posted by sportsguy83

I just sit back, look at this Dyno sheet and scratch my head wondering what exactly is Placebo about it?

Believing tuner-posted graphs is your own choice. Graph in the first post here barely shows any gains worth bothering for like $700.

If you want to run E85 in a car that already squeals like a bitch on E10 gas - it's your choice. Just be prepared to pony up cash to have HPFP installed when the TSB finally comes out and everyone else gets it for free.
The Magnuson-Moss act won't protect you from the manufacturer refusing to cover anything power-train related (including TSBs fixing OEM defects) when you mod it to non-oem spec. If you don't believe me - ask Audi owners. Audi recently starting checking for re-flashed ECUs on every visit to the dealers and if found, denying any factory-paid work to the drivetrain afterwards. Only a matter of time before more OEMs are doing it.
So in my opinion these measly gains aren't worth bothering with, given the reliability/warranty coverage/price trade-offs involved.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by dsgerbc

Believing tuner-posted graphs is your own choice. Graph in the first post here barely shows any gains worth bothering for like $700.

If you want to run E85 in a car that already squeals like a bitch on E10 gas - it's your choice. Just be prepared to pony up cash to have HPFP installed when the TSB finally comes out and everyone else gets it for free.
The Magnuson-Moss act won't protect you from the manufacturer refusing to cover anything power-train related (including TSBs fixing OEM defects) when you mod it to non-oem spec. If you don't believe me - ask Audi owners. Audi recently starting checking for re-flashed ECUs on every visit to the dealers and if found, denying any factory-paid work to the drivetrain afterwards. Only a matter of time before more OEMs are doing it.
So in my opinion these measly gains aren't worth bothering with, given the reliability/warranty coverage/price trade-offs involved.

Let me tell you a couple of facts. ECUTek tune for E85 has already been confirmed while I WAS PRESENT ina Dyno in a different State and independently, not with Visconti.

Second of all, the results here are for an AT model (the graph I posted IS for MT cars), and Visconti himself had posted the Dyno for an AT model with similar results to the OP chart, so this is not about believeing a false claim. Educate yourself before rambling out random thoughts.

Third, I personally will not go to the dealer with a warranty claim if MY actions break the car. I am an adult and assume FULL responsibility for my actions.

Oh, and one last thing, I have dealers close by that WORK with modded cars so if a TSB comes out my car will be serviced exactly like any other


Troll on my friend.

[dsgerbc]

Originally Posted by sportsguy83

Third, I personally will not go to the dealer with a warranty claim if MY actions break the car. I am an adult and assume FULL responsibility for my actions.

Oh, and one last thing, I have dealers close by that WORK with modded cars so if a TSB comes out my car will be serviced exactly like any other

You miss the point. If Subaru/Scion were to go with Audi route, you'll have to pay for stuff that didn't go bad due to the tune. I might be wrong, but I'm fairly sure you fully expect Subaru/Scion to do your factory TSBs for free, which won't isn't happening for tuned Audis anymore. And it's not up to dealer's discretion either, here have a read (or don't, ignorance is bliss).

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by dsgerbc

You miss the point. If Subaru/Scion were to go with Audi route, you'll have to pay for stuff that didn't go bad due to the tune. I might be wrong, but I'm fairly sure you fully expect Subaru/Scion to do your factory TSBs for free, which won't isn't happening for tuned Audis anymore. And it's not up to dealer's discretion either, here have a read (or don't, ignorance is bliss).

That's fine, thanks for the info. In the event that does happen, I again accept my responsibility in full. I know by tuning my car I risk f*ing it up and be SOL. So i'll man up and get it fixed at my cost.

[tonystewart]

Just flash it back, John provides the original with a new flash.

[drifter]

Couple points here; I don't think one should be called a "troll" or discouraged from posting just because they express an opposing opinion, others may feel it was an educated argument and give us something we can research on our own.

I aslo believe the "placebo effect" comment was a little premature based on 1 result. I, and, I"m sure others, would be quite interested and appreciative if you researched this a bit more and posted supporting results of this opinion, especially as most recipients of this tune have been quite pleased.

For the most part, these arguments have been kept on an adult level, lets keep it that way.

[Drift-Office]

Originally Posted by dsgerbc

Believing tuner-posted graphs is your own choice. Graph in the first post here barely shows any gains worth bothering for like $700.

At least in the OP's post, and mine in the case of the AT variants, that seems to be the consensus.

Originally Posted by Visconti

I would like to see these same runs but 1 graph 3rd Visconti vs fa20 & 2nd graph 4th visconti vs fa20

Hmmm. Maybe it's an East Coast thing but a "please" might serve you well especially when it's the weekend and I'm not at the facility. Be that as it may, I had thought you might want a H2H comparison so I kept this set handy.





In 3rd gear, the Visconti tune gains about 5WHP and 6#TQ for a 1000RPM range from 4200RPM onwards, with AFRs leaner than the FA20 tune @ 12.8 and then looses about 6WHP and 5#TQ from 6700 onwards because it got richer. I suppose Visconti (or most tuners) could mimic the AFRs to get the best of both worlds with this AR Intake system, though I think any of the gains would have been negated in this case. (My apologies to AirRaid, just my opinion.)

Originally Posted by sportsguy83

FYI that's stock vs STG 1 pump gas vs E85 tunes.... Visconti.

That's great but how about an apples to apples comparison with an AT setup and while we're on that, RPM instead of Speed & AFRs? That way we're all on the same page (being neutral and transparent) since showing speed does indicate slightly different AFRs and WHP readings, just ever so slightly...

Originally Posted by brichard0625

Avo's kit looks good when i was reading their thread but then it had me thinking, it saw the same gains that the dropinfilters had when ft86speedfactory did their dynos, +5hp/+1tq...so maybe the intake inlet did very little and it was just the filter that helped it out. I think im going to wait for a coldair.

Also a good observation, but I think you missed the part where FT86SpeedFactory posted the dyno charts in STD correction vs SAE, and that alone would yield you a few more WHP in favor of the STD numbers, especially in the warmer climates.

I would have done the same here but I didn't want to be accused of "inflating values" nor did I want to start a thread about correction factors and have everyone get confused. We should stick to the defacto standard, SAE values.

My 2 cents once again...