Third Party Testing: Crawford Billet Power Blocks (BPB / Manifold Spacers)

[RazBRZ]

Originally Posted by WolfsFang

No it is not a joke, it is a slab of aluminum that is cut in a cnc machine most likely and sold for 400 bucks, I dont know where they pulled that number from. Also if you bring the "Oh they are just making up for R&D cost" then that is bs. 3D printers should of been used for early prototypes until they got what they wanted and no 3D printers aren't expensive. Sorry if i sound really aggressive but it just makes me mad to see this I just dont see where they are getting this price point from. If anyone can give my view a 180 then it is a different story.

I would think they are getting the price from the amount of gain as compaired to other bolt on mods and with a little bit for the name.
Most intake for this platform run about $300-350 and make very minimal gains without a tune. This make larger gains without a tune and as the OP shows, makes even more with a tune (the intake will too, just not as large). It's more that just two billet spacers also, you have all the hardware that goes with it. I look at the "Bang for Buck" and not "oh, someone else can do this cheaper and steal someone else's idea. I would rather pay a bit more for this and get more gains instead of an intake and getting almost none

[TwinturboCamry]

So yes

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by WolfsFang

No it is not a joke, it is a slab of aluminum that is cut in a cnc machine most likely and sold for 400 bucks, I dont know where they pulled that number from. Also if you bring the "Oh they are just making up for R&D cost" then that is bs. 3D printers should of been used for early prototypes until they got what they wanted and no 3D printers aren't expensive. Sorry if i sound really aggressive but it just makes me mad to see this I just dont see where they are getting this price point from. If anyone can give my view a 180 then it is a different story.

Know what?

$399.99, solid product, simple bolt-on without power loss.

I'm sure someone else will copy later on and make a cheaper alternative. It's up to Crawford to figure out if they want to play the price war, and until then they have a monopoly on the market with this product.

That's how it works. Don't like the price, don't buy it now.

The details of running a business and making a product are for offline discussions.

-alex

[TwinturboCamry]

Originally Posted by kavanagh

whether you use billet aluminum or 3D printers i don't think is the issue in 'making up for R&D cost'. the materials cost isn't what drives the price, it's knowing what to do with it.

Consider this hypothetical mechanic's invoice for fixing a problem:

Tapping on the block with a mallet - $10j
Knowing where to tap with a mallet - $200

Why don't we just tap it all over with the mallet? Still $10

[Boxer486]

Originally Posted by WolfsFang

No it is not a joke, it is a slab of aluminum that is cut in a cnc machine most likely and sold for 400 bucks, I dont know where they pulled that number from. Also if you bring the "Oh they are just making up for R&D cost" then that is bs. 3D printers should of been used for early prototypes until they got what they wanted and no 3D printers aren't expensive. Sorry if i sound really aggressive but it just makes me mad to see this I just dont see where they are getting this price point from. If anyone can give my view a 180 then it is a different story.

I'm curious what you think machining two of these out of billet aluminum should cost based on just parts and labor based on your expert opinion. Feel free to itemize.

[86-tundra]

While shiv and nelsmar might not be the best friends, I seriously think they are the best contributors to this community (active) ... I would like to see an election for both of them against each other in an election for 2016 president.

[Boxer-86]

Originally Posted by Boxer486

I'm curious what you think machining two of these out of billet aluminum should cost based on just parts and labor based on your expert opinion. Feel free to itemize.

Parts and labor aren't the only variables to consider when evaluating the cost of a product, although proponents of Marx's "labor theory of value" would disagree. Value is a subjective valuation and if we value BPB's more than we value $400, they're not overpriced.

There are other factors to take into consideration as well, such as the allocation of overhead (electricity, indirect materials such as shop chemicals, acetylene, argon, etc) and fixed costs (buildings, land, capital equipment) to each unit of product sold, as well as the variable costs of each unit (direct labor and direct materials). The juvenile conversation about the value of the Crawford BPBs is only focusing on the variable costs of labor + direct materials..

[kodyo]

Originally Posted by Boxer486

I'm curious what you think machining two of these out of billet aluminum should cost based on just parts and labor based on your expert opinion. Feel free to itemize.

Material Cost: $10-$15.
Machine Shop Rate: $80/hour

My guess is that a set takes about 1 hour to make, if not less. Add in bolts and miscellaneous, I'm guessing these cost in the $100 range to make. Add in miscellaneous shipping/personnel expenses, maybe it comes to $120.

First to market will get what the market is willing to pay. I'm sure they will go down in price if another manufacturer releases something.

[Namuna]

Just a thought, but any other *reputable* company that's going to jump on this power block bandwagon is going to have to go through their own R&D process (with or without 3D rapid prototyping). Then run their own dyno testing and making sure nothing breaks or blows up...When they finally have a product they're comfortable enough standing behind and giving support for...THEN they go through whatever the manufacturing process is to get these out to the public. I imagine that's gotta take MONTHS.

...On the other hand, maybe some fly-by-night carbon-copy knock-offs could be offered for much cheaper, but they certainly couldn't stand behind the product and provide support in case of issues.

Again, this was my train of thought and why I got in on the GB. I'm certainly happy to be given corrected info if I'm wrong?

[Boxer486]

Originally Posted by Boxer-86

Parts and labor aren't the only variables to consider when evaluating the cost of a product, although proponents of Marx's "labor theory of value" would disagree. Value is a subjective valuation and if we value BPB's more than we value $400, they're not overpriced.

There are other factors to take into consideration as well, such as the allocation of overhead (electricity, indirect materials such as shop chemicals, acetylene, argon, etc) and fixed costs (buildings, land, capital equipment) to each unit of product sold, as well as the variable costs of each unit (direct labor and direct materials). The juvenile conversation about the value of the Crawford BPBs is only focusing on the variable costs of labor + direct materials..

I didn't ask you and was awaiting an enlightened response from the critic to see if they had any understanding of what it costs to actually make, ship and support a product. But thanks for springing the trap for them...

[Turdinator]

It may make power but so far the people who have tried it have only made a few RWHP like under 5hp. I drop in filter will net the same gain or more for a 10th the price which is why people have shy'd away from big TBs. The HP per $ ratio is not worth it to most people. It is the last step you would make. If you are serious about NA power then I would look at cams and heads before changing out the TB. Be a pioneer and try those out since there are now some on the market.

[Boxer486]

Originally Posted by kodyo

Material Cost: $10-$15.
Machine Shop Rate: $80/hour

My guess is that a set takes about 1 hour to make, if not less. Add in bolts and miscellaneous, I'm guessing these cost in the $100 range to make. Add in miscellaneous shipping/personnel expenses, maybe it comes to $120.

First to market will get what the market is willing to pay. I'm sure they will go down in price if another manufacturer releases something.

You actually think you can buy a 6061 billet aluminum block in that size for $10-$15 piecemeal? Yeah just $20 in 'personnel' and shipping expenses, lol right. Business fail.

[mid_life_crisis]

I've said it before now I'll say it again:
It's a friggin business, not a charity.
They develop products to make money, not out of the goodness of their hearts.
They can and will charge whatever customers will pay.
If you don't like the price, don't buy it, but for fuck's sake don't whine about it.

[Boxer486]

Originally Posted by Namuna

Just a thought, but any other *reputable* company that's going to jump on this power block bandwagon is going to have to go through their own R&D process

Not really. The height/runner length is already published, the rest can be copied pretty easily. This is not a complex part and you'd have to be a moron to screw up copying it.