Why would more power ruin the car??

[SCQTT]

Originally Posted by revaholic

On my Sprintex Intercooled kit, I'm probably making about 230hp but more importantly about 200lb/ft of torque. It's not that much more power and everything else is stock in my car. But the car is just so much livelier at speed, and I can get it to drift a little easier but when the tail gets loose it is just as controllable as stock. I really like it and so when Toyota's position is that any more power would make the car less balanced, I just don't agree. It just needs a bit more power.

Balance means many things, even if you don't agree. You added 20% to the price of the car, minimum, probably 25% when all done. Perhaps that is OK for you.

[revaholic]

Not talking about price, just the manufacturer's assertion that additional power would negatively affect the car.

Originally Posted by SCQTT

Balance means many things, even if you don't agree. You added 20% to the price of the car, minimum, probably 25% when all done. Perhaps that is OK for you.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Sapphireho

No, I totally get that you do not get it.

My car is 100% safety and smog legal.

Any car in the hands of an idiot can kill people.

Living in a country with an oppressive government doesn't have anything to do with the subject.

You are really reaching now.

Who says that? You? Did you make a vehicle inspection and did you get an approval of your changes from an approved inspector? When I changed the factory suspension to coilovers the car was inspected twice by Dekra. First time it didn't pass even the changed part was suitable for the car and had all the necessary certifications. Everything counts and noone can say by himself that his car is safe.

If you are modifying a car to drive it in your own yard, then you can do whatever you like and you can say that nothing is ruined. If you drive it on public roads, then you should be responsible. At least in civilized and developed countries and not as you said in countries with oppressive governments.

[guybo]

Well, catless + E85, I'm putting about 200 HP to the ground and 160 tq. My car isn't ruined but there's no extra weight either. The car in fact is a lot more fun and lively now. But with the extra 40 HP or so, and then adding a small passenger or cargo makes the car very different and less fun.

IMHO, if I added a bunch of stuff to increase weight and add a lot more power, I can see how the car would completely change character. With a light passenger I feel a major difference in the car and that weight is near the center of the car. Sure the power would overcome the sluggishness of the weight, but if there was all that weight up front, I can see the handling going to shit. I haven't tried to sit that passenger in the engine bay though, so I can't say for sure. Volunteers for the duty are hard to come by.

[olsonpg]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Who says that? You? Did you make a vehicle inspection and did you get an approval of your changes from an approved inspector? When I changed the factory suspension to coilovers the car was inspected twice by Dekra. First time it didn't pass even the changed part was suitable for the car and had all the necessary certifications. Everything counts and noone can say by himself that his car is safe.

If you are modifying a car to drive it in your own yard, then you can do whatever you like and you can say that nothing is ruined. If you drive it on public roads, then you should be responsible. At least in civilized and developed countries and not as you said in countries with oppressive governments.

so let me get this right..

since this boy slapped on some lowering springs and swapped out some bushings, he should have to go in and get a full safety check??

You sound like an overreaching governments wet dream.

[tomm.brz]

Originally Posted by olsonpg

so let me get this right..

since this boy slapped on some lowering springs and swapped out some bushings, he should have to go in and get a full safety check??

You sound like an overreaching governments wet dream.

lol

also in Japan you could swap springs with STi/TRD without problems directly at the dealer

also hks makes the uel header with the useless 100cells cat super small and it can pass emission test when coupled with stock front pipe

Europe has the most annoying and useless rules ever, and the funny things is Fiat and VW are the ones who break them first

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by NOHOME

Went back and found the laundry list of stuff you bolted on the car. Impressive and expensive. However, what I do not see is the before and after data to show that you actually accomplished anything with all that expense. That is where most people dive into denial. I am sure that you have the data from before and after you bolted each part on but just forgot to post it.

As to envious, not so much. Betty Crocker cake from a mix is not my style no matter how much frosting and sparkles it has. I like stuff to be a bit more original and require some skills from the builder. Not saying you or your installer don't have mad skills, but all I see is a catalog of parts that go on with a wrench and a CC.

As to the denial bit? Tossing huge amounts of $$$ at any car project is pretty stupid when looked at objectively. More so when you don't have before and after data to show that it made a difference as is the case with the vast majority of people who bolt thousands of dollars of parts on their car based on fancy add copy. The stuff we buy from the best aftermarket suppliers would not qualify as more than prototypes from an OEM vendor; not near enough development and validation. The end result is not worth 50 cents on the dollar if you are lucky. There is nothing wrong with denial, it is what allows us to do the next dumb but fun car project that we dream up.

Normally you and I are on the same page but I have to disagree with much of this.


Ho made no claims of any sort that he needs to justify our quantify. His goal as stated was to have a car that could pass easier and was a bit tighter. That is what he built. He was not chasing numbers or trying to shave a hundredth of a second off a track time. If he was claiming 400Hp, a 26% increase in acceleration or a spectacular trap time on the strip then sure he needs to have some numbers. He made no such statements.


Don't most car parts bolt on? Just because they are not engine swaps does not mean they are not effective. Not sure how the end result depends on who did the work either. It isn't like he dropped his car off at some shop and said "here is a blank cheque do whatever you want to make it cool". He had goals, researched what he wanted and had it installed. There are thousands of speed shops that do this work for people everyday. It has gone on since the first cars rolled off the lines. Not everybody has the tools, space and time to do all the work themselves.


Yep, tossing huge $$$ into a car project looks silly. But so does spending money on any hobby. I have a buddy that spends about $5K a year on his lawn. Not something I would do but it makes him happy.


Comparing any modification up to and including a full engine swap to your project is like holding a drive to the grocery store up against a Mars mission. To say that unless you do the same it isn't valid or useful work is just plain wrong. Your project transcends the terms modification by a massive margin and is as much an art form as it is a car build. I have done some extensive work over the years but something like that is not a project I would even dream of. Looking down on people because they do not tackle that level of a job is not a realistic outlook.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Normally you and I are on the same page but I have to disagree with much of this.


Ho made no claims of any sort that he needs to justify our quantify. His goal as stated was to have a car that could pass easier and was a bit tighter. That is what he built. He was not chasing numbers or trying to shave a hundredth of a second off a track time. If he was claiming 400Hp, a 26% increase in acceleration or a spectacular trap time on the strip then sure he needs to have some numbers. He made no such statements.


Don't most car parts bolt on? Just because they are not engine swaps does not mean they are not effective. Not sure how the end result depends on who did the work either. It isn't like he dropped his car off at some shop and said "here is a blank cheque do whatever you want to make it cool". He had goals, researched what he wanted and had it installed. There are thousands of speed shops that do this work for people everyday. It has gone on since the first cars rolled off the lines. Not everybody has the tools, space and time to do all the work themselves.


Yep, tossing huge $$$ into a car project looks silly. But so does spending money on any hobby. I have a buddy that spends about $5K a year on his lawn. Not something I would do but it makes him happy.


Comparing any modification up to and including a full engine swap to your project is like holding a drive to the grocery store up against a Mars mission. To say that unless you do the same it isn't valid or useful work is just plain wrong. Your project transcends the terms modification by a massive margin and is as much an art form as it is a car build. I have done some extensive work over the years but something like that is not a project I would even dream of. Looking down on people because they do not tackle that level of a job is not a realistic outlook.

You highlight what's wrong with car culture with this, but it goes a lot deeper than just car culture.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

You highlight what's wrong with car culture with this, but it goes a lot deeper than just car culture.

It happens with any group of enthusiasts.


"What you don't golf 36 holes every day and shot 5 under? Why even bother"
"You use dollar store stuff for your scrapbook? Only the finest craft store materials are suitable."
"You fish in lakes around here? Go north or forget it."
"You have an inflatable doll? You know they make robots for that now right?"


I have personally had two of those said to me.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

It happens with any group of enthusiasts.


"What you don't golf 36 holes every day and shot 5 under? Why even bother"
"You use dollar store stuff for your scrapbook? Only the finest craft store materials are suitable."
"You fish in lakes around here? Go north or forget it."
"You have an inflatable doll? You know they make robots for that now right?"


I have personally had two of those said to me.

I think I know which ones.

[Th3rdSun]

Geez,I go on vacation for a week and this thread is still going?!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Th3rdSun

Geez,I go on vacation for a week and this thread is still going?!

Pretty much just the same thing over and over but yes it is.

[mrg666]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

it goes a lot deeper than just car culture.

I agree, some people here are just looking for confirmation/approval that what they didn't/couldn't get is actually something bad. They just want to ease that burning desire for power in their subconscious by patronizing the others.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by mrg666

I agree, some people here are just looking for confirmation/approval that what they didn't/couldn't get is actually something bad. They just want to ease that burning desire for power in their subconscious by patronizing the others.

I think what we have seen is the guys that want more power and did something about it don't feel they ruined the car. The guys that are fine with the power but still understand why other want it also don't think it ruins the car. Not really sure that there were many trying to hide their desire.


All in all it simply boils down to what you want out of the car. There is nothing that can ruin it if that is what that certain owner is after. A 300HP stripped down drag beast would definitely "ruin" the car for my needs but mine would totally suck for the dude that wants to go faster but isn't worried about a back seat, air conditioning, replacing tires due to wear, the risk of reliability issues, etc, etc. One person's "ruined" is another's perfect.