Bilstein b6 + Stock springs

[JMon85]

I don't drive on a track but thanks for the inputs. I enjoy cruising the back roads as this is my DD. I come from an MX background so some aspects sus tuning are new to me.

Just looking for cost effective all season suggestions to stiffen her up. Many have mentioned and I 100% agree that from the factory this is a fantastic car, but its not perfect. There are obviously things that can be improved upon to make this car even more pleasurable to drive.

As this is still a new platform and ppl are still fucking around with it's bits I was just wondering if anyone had first had experience with this setup. Not taking sides but clearly there's only one person here who does. But honesty tho.. are B6s + 2017 springs + sways really that bad? I'm not going that route but it's still interesting to see what ppl r doing. This is mearly a researching tool.

@OND I'm considering those camber bolts, thanks! @WRBrzRX since u posted your resume, I'd genuinely like to hear your suggestions for a mild street setup.

[OND]

Btw I've been assuming you were on Michelin Pilot Super Sports, but I see you wrote Michelin PS. Which model of Pilot Sport are you on exactly?

[JMon85]

ATM PS A/S 3+. Almost considering some cheap"er"summer tires to throw on at the end of the month in conjunction with the bushing kits. Direzza DZ102, Firehawk Indy 500, Azenis RT615K all under $400 range. Buuut .. The all seasons seem to out perform those, on paper that is..

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Gforce

The chassis is so good you don't even realize that you had nothing to do with the car remaining pointing more or less where you were going.

Right. The car chose the steering wheel angle, the amount of throttle and relative angle of the chassis to the direction of travel. The driver had nothing to do with it.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Gforce

I post Chris Harris effortlessly drifting the box stock GT86 on a real Formula 1 track [1] and a video of how he thinks you should learn how to do that, in reply to an inane post from some nerd from Dumas Texas who posted a video of his truly hopeless demonstration of "car control" [2]. The funniest part of that was his invitation to let him drive me around the track suggesting I would suffer intestinal embarrassment. I am pretty sure he would be correct but not for the reasons he probably thinks. He only stayed on the track by pure luck and the skill of Subaru engineers [3] in making a car that oversteers so readily relatively safe for dummies like him[4]. No experienced driver watching that video would accept a ride. I think an instructor would demand he stop the car [5]and then get out (I've actually witnessed an instructor do that while I was watching a track session waiting my turn[6].)

1/ You seem to have a bit of an obsession with F1. Would the drifting had been less significant had it been on a non F1 track?
2/ The "Dumas Texas" posted evidence of actually going out and driving. One usually offers either congratulations or advice on how to improve. You offer neither, just an ad hominem attack.
3/ Right, the engineers were in the boot controlling the car remotely.
4/ You don't see the contradiction here? "oversteers so readily" and "relatively safe" are mutually exclusive.
5/ This implies there were no marshals there or the marshals did not consider the driver to be a risk.
6/ Having witnessed an instructor stop a driver is irrelevant.

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by JMon85

ATM PS A/S 3+. Almost considering some cheap"er"summer tires to throw on at the end of the month in conjunction with the bushing kits. Direzza DZ102, Firehawk Indy 500, Azenis RT615K all under $400 range. Buuut .. The all seasons seem to out perform those, on paper that is..

And in reality. The only real improvement you can make on those Michelins is to move to the Supersports, now superseded in Europe at least by the Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S. Not to be confused with the older Pilot Sport 4.

The Pilot A/S is as good in the real world as it has been shown to be on track.

If you drive fairly normally on the street you don't heat up the tires very much and these all season tires actually work better than ultra high performance summer rubber for that reason. You don't need better brakes than stock for the same reason.

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

1/ You seem to have a bit of an obsession with F1. Would the drifting had been less significant had it been on a non F1 track?
2/ The "Dumas Texas" posted evidence of actually going out and driving. One usually offers either congratulations or advice on how to improve. You offer neither, just an ad hominem attack.
3/ Right, the engineers were in the boot controlling the car remotely.
4/ You don't see the contradiction here? "oversteers so readily" and "relatively safe" are mutually exclusive.
5/ This implies there were no marshals there or the marshals did not consider the driver to be a risk.
6/ Having witnessed an instructor stop a driver is irrelevant.

F1 is the pinnacle of Motorsport. Now the Americans own it I fear it may degenerate to another version of NASCAR. We shall see.

Yes he did and claimed to be able to inspire fear in me. That is a juvenile ad hominem attack. I don't take those lying down on the internet or in person.

No response necessary except to say Americans don't do sarcasm. It is trickier than you might think.

Not so. However, driving a box stock BRZ in severe winter conditions is stupidly difficult. Add a Supercharger and you really must add at least a stiffer front roll bar, or disconect the stock rear bar for the winter. Softer rear springs make a huge difference to chassis balance noticeable especially at the low roll angles you achieve on icy roads. Even wet roads become interesting if you fit a Supercharger. I am still waiting for one of the self proclaimed experts in this thread to explain how the factory could reduce understeer by fitting stiffer front springs and softer rate rear springs. Anyone?

No reply necessary.

I'm pretty sure our Texan presented a danger to everyone on track that day. He stayed on track because the stock chassis is relatively safe for amateurs. It is stupidly difficult to drive quickly but that was the original intent of the design engineers. No automotive engineer deliberately makes a low powered car easy to drift and at the same time expects it to be quick on a track. The stock BRZ was woefully slow the harder it was driven. Every competent driver testing the original chassis found the same defect. Some called it fun or playful, correct until you tried to use the car year round. Most called for a better chassis. The aftermarket stepped up quickly with spring sets, better dampers and bigger front roll bars. That should end this debate. If that's not sufficient to absolutely prove my point then the fact that the factory went out last year and did everything I did proves I am correct (the factory couldn't afford to add a very expensive Supercharger and the only reason the factory won't Supercharge this car is they can't sell enough base cars as it is)

I think that covers your 6 points. No ad hominem used. Any reply?

[norcalpb]

Originally Posted by Gforce

F1 is the pinnacle of Motorsport. Now the Americans own it I fear it may degenerate to another version of NASCAR. We shall see.

Yes he did and claimed to be able to inspire fear in me. That is a juvenile ad hominem attack. I don't take those lying down on the internet or in person.

No response necessary except to say Americans don't do sarcasm. It is trickier than you might think.

Not so. However, driving a box stock BRZ in severe winter conditions is stupidly difficult. Add a Supercharger and you really must add at least a stiffer front roll bar, or disconect the stock rear bar for the winter. Softer rear springs make a huge difference to chassis balance noticeable especially at the low roll angles you achieve on icy roads. Even wet roads become interesting if you fit a Supercharger. I am still waiting for one of the self proclaimed experts in this thread to explain how the factory could reduce understeer by fitting stiffer front springs and softer rate rear springs. Anyone?

No reply necessary.

I'm pretty sure our Texan presented a danger to everyone on track that day. He stayed on track because the stock chassis is relatively safe for amateurs. It is stupidly difficult to drive quickly but that was the original intent of the design engineers. No automotive engineer deliberately makes a low powered car easy to drift and at the same time expects it to be quick on a track. The stock BRZ was woefully slow the harder it was driven. Every competent driver testing the original chassis found the same defect. Some called it fun or playful, correct until you tried to use the car year round. Most called for a better chassis. The aftermarket stepped up quickly with spring sets, better dampers and bigger front roll bars. That should end this debate. If that's not sufficient to absolutely prove my point then the fact that the factory went out last year and did everything I did proves I am correct (the factory couldn't afford to add a very expensive Supercharger and the only reason the factory won't Supercharge this car is they can't sell enough base cars as it is)

I think that covers your 6 points. No ad hominem used. Any reply?

[churchx]

To me the pinnacle of Motorsport still is B group rally cars. So what? I don't advocate retrofitting AWD, putting 600+hp turbo engines, replacing body with custom CF monocoque one for each and every twin out there. Nor that their suspension, it's tuning & driving should be done same as those cars. I already in one thread suggested to you - if you are ok with redoing some singled out design or driving style decision from completely different cars like F1, why not do that from other completely different cars, eg. monster trucks? It makes as much sense. Imagine - gt86 going over multiple cars in traffic jam. "Ideal" setup, just as your suggested "ideal setup" of adding understeer to front, because F1. Hmm, but then again, maybe retrofit tracks, armor and cannon from Abrams tank? Or from T-72, for those on budget. And engine swap, to WWII Merlin.

[OND]

Originally Posted by JMon85

ATM PS A/S 3+. Almost considering some cheap"er"summer tires to throw on at the end of the month in conjunction with the bushing kits. Direzza DZ102, Firehawk Indy 500, Azenis RT615K all under $400 range. Buuut .. The all seasons seem to out perform those, on paper that is..

Well, that changes a lot. I thought you were on MPSS and ruled the tires out from the beginning.

I dont have any experience with your tires, but i would really be surprised if any A/S tire was a big improvement over stockies in dry weather. I think FFI500, ventus v12, bfg comp v2 would all be significant improvements over all seasons while not breaking the bank. Do you have any links to the comparison you mention? I havent seen many comparisons of tires in different performance categories, so it would be a nice read.

Looks like you already have 17x8 aftermarket wheels, so you can use those for summer tires and use the stockers (if you still have em) for winter tires to get the best of both worlds instead of compromising with all seasons.

[Gforce]

Prepare to be surprised. The Michelin Pilot A/S 3 (now the + version is out, even better tire) has to be experienced to be believed.

I have run the Michelin PS 2, a much older predecessor of the SS. I have run the Michelin Pilot A/S +, the predecessor to the A/S 3.

Michelin has performed a magic trick. Their PS all season tire is better than their PS summer tire of only a few years ago.

Very popular upgrade for Corvette owners, just for example.

I recommend the Pilot A/S 3 as a significant upgrade to the stock Primacy without spoiling some of the fun factor of this underpowered chassis.

My supercharged BRZ lays elevens a bit too easily with these tires but I like them in the corners. Besides, who doesn't like the aroma of freshly smoked Michelins on their morning drive to work?

I find I have to switch off the stability control every time I drive now. It interferes far too often and isn't very sophisticated. It'd be nice if it defaulted to off and stayed off. Wonder why it doesn't?

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by churchx

To me the pinnacle of Motorsport still is B group rally cars. So what? I don't advocate retrofitting AWD, putting 600+hp turbo engines, replacing body with custom CF monocoque one for each and every twin out there. Nor that their suspension, it's tuning & driving should be done same as those cars. I already in one thread suggested to you - if you are ok with redoing some singled out design or driving style decision from completely different cars like F1, why not do that from other completely different cars, eg. monster trucks? It makes as much sense. Imagine - gt86 going over multiple cars in traffic jam. "Ideal" setup, just as your suggested "ideal setup" of adding understeer to front, because F1. Hmm, but then again, maybe retrofit tracks, armor and cannon from Abrams tank? Or from T-72, for those on budget. And engine swap, to WWII Merlin.

Again, Americans just can't do sarcasm.

[2013dgmbrzdood]

Gforce its the law it has to be on when you start. Otherwise someone who set it off would wreck and then sue subaru for allowing them to forget. Lol!

You should try pilot super sport, they were on a huge upgrade on the other car.
The pilot sport 4 the brand newest comes in only large sizes as far as I can tell.

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by 2013dgmbrzdood

Gforce its the law it has to be on when you start. Otherwise someone who set it off would wreck and then sue subaru for allowing them to forget. Lol!

You should try pilot super sport, they were on a huge upgrade on the other car.
The pilot sport 4 the brand newest comes in only large sizes as far as I can tell.

(I realize that, I was speaking rhetorically. On my 2001 Audi S4 a simple press of the button activated the ASC, default was off, on other more modern cars you have to press and hold the button for ten seconds or more. )

I use the All Season version because the weather here is hardly ever warm enough to benefit from the Supersports or its successor the PS 4s. The last frosty morning or even snow can happen in June and the first in September.

Until Michelin, Pirelli and Continental (the first, with their highly acclaimed DWS) started building all season tires on high performance carcasses and with grippy compounds I refused to use them. No season tires they were. The Michelin Pilot Sport A/S+ was the first proper tire with an all season design, followed by the truly amazing A/S 3.

Make no mistake, if I lived where it was warm enough for long enough I'd be running Supersports or the P Zero. I've run PS 2 and P Zero Rosso on other cars.

I remember when Pirelli started all this with their first P7.....I've even used a set, (actually the last version, the P7000) which tramlined and roared after half the tread was gone.