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Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain.


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Old 02-23-2018, 01:51 PM   #57
Jordan Silveira
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Originally Posted by CSG Mike View Post
gains per dollar are actually quote good, when you consider:

- Ace + ecutek cable/dongle + license + tune

vs

- Other header + ecutek cable/dongle + license + tune.
I'd actually love to know and see how the Ace Header 350 (seeing how it's often crowned the king of header choices) compares to the Fujitsubo SuperEX EL Catted Exhaust Manifold (comes with the OP included too).
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Old 02-23-2018, 01:57 PM   #58
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I'd actually love to know and see how the Ace Header 350 (seeing how it's often crowned the king of header choices) compares to the Fujitsubo SuperEX EL Catted Exhaust Manifold (comes with the OP included too).
I would expect less gains if nothing else strictly because it still has a cat.

That said I have seen no dyno graphs from this header.
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Old 02-23-2018, 02:07 PM   #59
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I would expect less gains if nothing else strictly because it still has a cat.

That said I have seen no dyno graphs from this header.
Yeah I think that's a fair hypothesis. Granted I think it would be interesting to see how much the cat holds it back in comparison to ACE.

The reason I brought up this specific header is just due to price and the oh so popular ideal of "you get what you pay for". Granted I believe if you asked Fujitsubo, the SuperEX price of 2600 would speak more to their quality of work and materials insofar as weld points and keeping it relatively quiet.

Conversely, ACE would speak to their focus being all out performance (I assume of course).

Anyways, the only person I've seen dyno it is DSOmegaX and he had the SuperEX header/OP, Fujitsubo FP, Stock Midpipe, and STI Sports Muffler. I believe he was a couple ponies shy of 200 to the wheels.
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Old 02-23-2018, 02:31 PM   #60
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Then why does an OTS tune on a stock car not get rid of the dip if that is the reason for it?


Pretty much stock car with OTS tunes. Still has dip.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47001
The dip was created delibaretely by factory tune and hardware. Not just with tune.

The blue line below is the torque curve of the "mother" engine. It is the FB20 engine which was used as a base to design our engine. My daily car has this engine and it has no torque dip at all. Do you see any dip in the curve? Do you think they could avoid the dip in the older engine and not in the newer?

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Old 02-23-2018, 03:14 PM   #61
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The dip was created delibaretely by factory tune and hardware. Not just with tune.

The blue line below is the torque curve of the "mother" engine. It is the FB20 engine which was used as a base to design our engine. My daily car has this engine and it has no torque dip at all. Do you see any dip in the curve? Do you think they could avoid the dip in the older engine and not in the newer?

Showing me an FB20 is not apples to apples. I linked you some dyno's to stock FA20 with tune. Show me the same with no dip. And like what has already been shown, plenty of cars that have headers and a tune, still have a dip.
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Old 02-23-2018, 03:49 PM   #62
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Without dynoing the car, I love my ACE A/350 with Delicious Flex Fuel and tune. The car feels so much better than any other header and words above the stock header. I took off my Supercharger recently and I'm actually surprised how much power this car still has. Butt Dyno is satisfied. Numbers aren't everything, after all, did you buy a 86/BRZ based on the numbers? Thought so.
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Old 02-23-2018, 05:13 PM   #63
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Without dynoing the car, I love my ACE A/350 with Delicious Flex Fuel and tune. The car feels so much better than any other header and words above the stock header. I took off my Supercharger recently and I'm actually surprised how much power this car still has. Butt Dyno is satisfied. Numbers aren't everything, after all, did you buy a 86/BRZ based on the numbers? Thought so.
Man I wish I could test drive your car. I'm dying to know what a tune from Delicious and headers from Ace or elsewhere would do to this car.
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Old 02-23-2018, 05:26 PM   #64
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Without dynoing the car, I love my ACE A/350 with Delicious Flex Fuel and tune. The car feels so much better than any other header and words above the stock header. I took off my Supercharger recently and I'm actually surprised how much power this car still has. Butt Dyno is satisfied. Numbers aren't everything, after all, did you buy a 86/BRZ based on the numbers? Thought so.
lol this statement implies you have driven an 86 configured with every other header on the market
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Old 02-23-2018, 06:04 PM   #65
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I wish there's a comparison between ACE 350 & 150. The latter yields more top end and less low end, but really by how much?
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Old 02-23-2018, 06:13 PM   #66
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Here is my virtual dyno. Don't look at the numbers which are obviously wrong (I had to select a 2014 BRZ and changed the final drive to 4.3) but just look at the hp and tq curves.
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Old 02-23-2018, 06:47 PM   #67
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Here is my virtual dyno. Don't look at the numbers which are obviously wrong (I had to select a 2014 BRZ and changed the final drive to 4.3) but just look at the hp and tq curves.
How does it subjectively feel?
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Old 02-23-2018, 07:03 PM   #68
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How does it subjectively feel?
Light, quick, and peppy. Step on the throttle anywhere over 2500 rpms and it just starts pulling. I should be able to take hairpins at COTA in 3rd gear now.
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Old 02-23-2018, 07:41 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG View Post
Then why does an OTS tune on a stock car not get rid of the dip if that is the reason for it?


Pretty much stock car with OTS tunes. Still has dip.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47001
If my theory from earlier holds any water then the reason why a tune can't fix the dip alone is because the motor will try to avoid knock regardless of the basic parameters set by the tune, and knock may be problematic on some high compression NA motors at low rpms where slow exhaust speeds increase combustion chamber temperatures from residual exhaust gases.

If my theory is true then trying to hard tune out the dip without a header could be dangerous or increase the chance of engine knock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG View Post
Showing me an FB20 is not apples to apples. I linked you some dyno's to stock FA20 with tune. Show me the same with no dip. And like what has already been shown, plenty of cars that have headers and a tune, still have a dip.
The FB20 is a stroked FA20 (minus port injection). The FB20 has a lower compression, so it would make a good apples to apples comparison for comparing the effects of compression ratio on low end torque (to demonstrate my theory true or false), but it isn't a good apples to apples comparison because the engine is undersquare (longer stroke and smaller piston diameter than our square setup). Usually a stroked motor will have more low end torque, so any dip alleviation from not being as high compressed could just as likely be from being stroked. Thus, I agree with you that the FB20 isn't an apples to apples comparison for my theory or for his theory.
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Old 02-23-2018, 08:06 PM   #70
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If my theory from earlier holds any water then the reason why a tune can't fix the dip alone is because the motor will try to avoid knock regardless of the basic parameters set by the tune, and knock may be problematic on some high compression NA motors at low rpms where slow exhaust speeds increase combustion chamber temperatures from residual exhaust gases.

If my theory is true then trying to hard tune out the dip without a header could be dangerous or increase the chance of engine knock.



The FB20 is a stroked FA20 (minus port injection). The FB20 has a lower compression, so it would make a good apples to apples comparison for comparing the effects of compression ratio on low end torque (to demonstrate my theory true or false), but it isn't a good apples to apples comparison because the engine is undersquare (longer stroke and smaller piston diameter than our square setup). Usually a stroked motor will have more low end torque, so any dip alleviation from not being as high compressed could just as likely be from being stroked. Thus, I agree with you that the FB20 isn't an apples to apples comparison for my theory or for his theory.
It doesn't.

A stock FA20 tuned on Motec, still exhibits the dip.
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