Maybe a good news? End of EPA Ethanol requirement

[QC-FRS]

Nothing official but it seems that for those of you in the US, the Gmvt would remove the requirement of ethanol... Not sure it would mean that we "north of the border" get that benefit also but that would be great!

http://jalopnik.com/5933705/the-whit...ol-requirement

[Justin.b]

That is fantastic!

I know the corn lobby is strong, but really? Ethanol in the gas? WTF?

It produces less power per gallon (and therefore provides fewer miles per gallon), it doesn't reduce the cost of a gallon of gasoline and it takes more energy to produce than it releases when burned.

-Justin

[Nepenthe]

Great Friday news (if it comes to fruition).

[Stu baru]

Originally Posted by Justin.b

That is fantastic!

I know the corn lobby is strong, but really? Ethanol in the gas? WTF?

It produces less power per gallon (and therefore provides fewer miles per gallon), it doesn't reduce the cost of a gallon of gasoline and it takes more energy to produce than it releases when burned.

-Justin

Exactly. Until they can make the stuff using non-food plant sources and power the manufacturing process via solar...

[Chandlsd]

Isn't it Sugar Cane that has some of the highest energy potential as a biofuel? Too bad it's hard to grow that in 'Merica. Can't get anything from them damn foreigners. They might kill 'Merican jobs.

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[Justin.b]

Originally Posted by Chandlsd

Isn't it Sugar Cane that has some of the highest energy potential as a biofuel? Too bad it's hard to grow that in 'Merica. Can't get anything from them damn foreigners. They might kill 'Merican jobs.

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That's why ethanol makes sense for Brazil. It requires a fraction of the processing to make ethanol from sugar cane as it does from corn.

Brazil isn't exactly going to give us a great deal on their fuel supply. I think they don't trust the US and want to avoid getting in bed with us if possible. Brazil is quite smart.

-Justin

[Allch Chcar]

It was already mentioned in the thread about E15 pumps. But from Yahoo business.

[kanundrum]

I thought Ethanol had a higher octane rating making it a good thing:

A 2004 MIT study[35] and an earlier paper published by the Society of Automotive Engineers[36] identify a method to exploit the characteristics of fuel ethanol substantially better than mixing it with gasoline. The method presents the possibility of leveraging the use of alcohol to achieve definite improvement over the cost-effectiveness of hybrid electric. The improvement consists of using dual-fuel direct-injection of pure alcohol (or the azeotrope or E85) and gasoline, in any ratio up to 100% of either, in a turbocharged, high compression-ratio, small-displacement engine having performance similar to an engine having twice the displacement. Each fuel is carried separately, with a much smaller tank for alcohol. The high-compression (which increases efficiency) engine will run on ordinary gasoline under low-power cruise conditions. Alcohol is directly injected into the cylinders (and the gasoline injection simultaneously reduced) only when necessary to suppress ‘knock’ such as when significantly accelerating. Direct cylinder injection raises the already high octane rating of ethanol up to an effective 130. The calculated over-all reduction of gasoline use and CO2 emission is 30%. The consumer cost payback time shows a 4:1 improvement over turbo-diesel and a 5:1 improvement over hybrid. The problems of water absorption into pre-mixed gasoline (causing phase separation), supply issues of multiple mix ratios and cold-weather starting are also avoided.
Ethanol's higher octane rating allows an increase of an engine's compression ratio for increased thermal efficiency.[28] In one study, complex engine controls and increased exhaust gas recirculation allowed a compression ratio of 19.5 with fuels ranging from neat ethanol to E50. Thermal efficiency up to approximately that for a diesel was achieved.[37] This would result in the fuel economy of a neat ethanol vehicle to be about the same as one burning gasoline.
Since 1989 there have also been ethanol engines based on the diesel principle operating in Sweden.[38] They are used primarily in city buses, but also in distribution trucks and waste collectors. The engines, made by Scania, have a modified compression ratio, and the fuel (known as ED95) used is a mix of 93.6 % ethanol and 3.6 % ignition improver, and 2.8% denaturants.[39] The ignition improver makes it possible for the fuel to ignite in the diesel combustion cycle. It is then also possible to use the energy efficiency of the diesel principle with ethanol. These engines have been used in the United Kingdom by Reading Transport but the use of bioethanol fuel is now being phased out.

[Justin.b]

Higher octane just means it's harder to burn, but there's definitely some advantages to using it in high compression or high-boost applications that are designed specifically to exploit the properties of ethanol.

In a street car expecting gasoline, the ethanol just reduces power and fuel economy.

-Justin

[TheRipler]

The question with this is what will replace the oxygen content in your gasoline, so that it still meets EPA requirements?

I'm not sure how many of you remember the gas with MTBE. It sucked too, because it replaced pretty much the same amount of hydrocarbons with oxygen. Plus, it didn't have the cool effects of alcohol for high compression or boosted applications. On top of that, it was highly toxic and carcinogenic, and getting into people's ground water.

Be careful what you wish for.

[civicdrivr]

Originally Posted by Chandlsd

Isn't it Sugar Cane that has some of the highest energy potential as a biofuel? Too bad it's hard to grow that in 'Merica. Can't get anything from them damn foreigners. They might kill 'Merican jobs.

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[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by Justin.b

Higher octane just means it's harder to burn, but there's definitely some advantages to using it in high compression or high-boost applications that are designed specifically to exploit the properties of ethanol.

In a street car expecting gasoline, the ethanol just reduces power and fuel economy.

-Justin

That is false. Even in a lowish compression engine the latent heat of evaporation in Ethanol will cool the intake air making more power. E10 the difference is negligible but it's there. Higher octane means it can run higher dynamic compression without knocking. Higher compression means more power and a little bit better fuel efficiency.

Plus due to spec blending with cheaper lower octane Gasoline and Ethanol the difference is a wash as far as fuel economy. You just get less MPG for less money. Check the prices in states like Iowa that sell "pure" gasoline for 3% more than E10 and the price is about the same per unit of energy.

This drought was pretty bad so things could go either way.

[Justin.b]

Potentially it can be more power, but unless the engine is tuned to take advantage of it you're not going to see any more hp.

Also, the pump price does not reflect the actual cost of a gallon of ethanol. It's subsidized quite a bit. If we wanted to make it a nationally-available fuel and it was too popular to subsidize it would cost a heckuvalot more than gasoline.

-Justin

[Razz]

Corn ethanol is just plain stupid.