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Old 12-06-2018, 01:09 PM   #43
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I have found that I enjoy my vehicles a LOT more when I just drive them and don't read forums about all the problems folks have with them. Forums, including this one, are great for a few things. Grins and keeping in touch with other folks who love the same vehicle you do is certainly one of them. Another great function of the forum(s) is to find how-to picotorials to maintenance tasks and repairs that you haven't done previously, to make sure you're identifying things correctly.
A couple caveats.. you have to know your personality type. If you're the type who looks for problems, thinks every little sound you hadn't noticed previously is probably indicative of a major repair (when usually, it's a bent brake shield, loose heat shield, or something else meaningless), or just generally a "worrier," forums are the road to hell. I can be one of those folks, but I'm aware of it and proceed accordingly.
You also have to know the internet and how folks work on it. There are a lot of people who "speak" (write) very glibly and sound quite knowledgeable, but in reality are just internet jockeys who just regurgitate stuff they've read before but have no real world experience with what is being discussed. Even worse, they write in such an intelligent manner that the sometimes incorrect (and sometimes downright wrong and dangerous) information they post is taken as truth by others without any background knowledge and then further dispersed. Vicious cycle. On the other end of the spectrum are folks who TRULY know their stuff and have tons of actual hands-on experience DOING repairs and maintenance, some professionally and highly respected, but either can't write well or competely, or just don't care or take the time to do so. Posts can be borderline illiterate, so folks discount their input wrongly. OF COURSE, there's lots of overlap.. extremely literate true experts, and a vast number if illiterate wannabes.


THE challenge is in learning enough background info to be able to make good decisions as to which posts to believe, and which posts to discount. As with all things, even then, it's best to verify. If you read it in a forum, treat it as an idea. It's up to YOU to decide whether that idea is a fact, an opinion, a good idea, a bad idea, or an outright untruth. Therein lies the rub.



My opinion to the O.P.? There's absolutely nothing wrong with your transmission, and you are shifting with too much force. Now... which type of poster am I?
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Old 12-06-2018, 01:38 PM   #44
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I have found that I enjoy my vehicles a LOT more when I just drive them and don't read forums about all the problems folks have with them. Forums, including this one, are great for a few things. Grins and keeping in touch with other folks who love the same vehicle you do is certainly one of them. Another great function of the forum(s) is to find how-to picotorials to maintenance tasks and repairs that you haven't done previously, to make sure you're identifying things correctly.
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Old 12-06-2018, 01:49 PM   #45
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I mean, you're not wrong. But, like I said to the OP, I think you're looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. Yes, double clutching to do the synchros' job for them would indeed alleviate shifting problems caused by bad synchros. But a notchy shift because the OP is trying to force the shifter into place rather than letting the shifter slip into gear normally is not a case of bad synchros.
This isn't about bad synchros--the glitch comes from the synchro *working*. The one real situation that requires double clutching in this car is from 2nd to 1st while moving at non-trivial speed. But elsewhere, there definitely is a different feel between downshift with and without double clutch. Just want to point out to the OP how to get rid of the glitch if he absolutely can't stand it. That's all.
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As for the thottle blip, again youre right that blipping the throttle doesnt really have any effect on the act of shifting itself. The trans is not linked to the engine at that point, so blipping the throttle doesn't do anything to help the trans get into gear. But, a light throttle blip when downshifting is still proper shifting technique. I was just trying to give the OP advice that would help him shift smoothly.
Hmm... Downshifting at 70mph probably isn't the best place to learn how to shift smoothly. Anyway, as already mentioned, blipping with the clutch pressed isn't going to affect getting into gear. So there really is no advantage in blipping in neutral then moving into the final gear. If anything, this lengthens the time between the blip and letting the clutch go. Just clutch in, make the whole shift in one go, blip to a close enough rpm, then let the clutch go right away.
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Old 12-06-2018, 02:22 PM   #46
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When I was in the sixth grade one of my teachers gave us an assignment to write out instructions for how to walk. Then he took our instructions and tried to follow them while the class laughed. It was a miracle he didn't end up in the hospital.

Discussions of driving a manual and using a clutch remind me of that assignment.
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Old 12-06-2018, 02:25 PM   #47
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This isn't about bad synchros--the glitch comes from the synchro *working*. The one real situation that requires double clutching in this car is from 2nd to 1st while moving at non-trivial speed. But elsewhere, there definitely is a different feel between downshift with and without double clutch. Just want to point out to the OP how to get rid of the glitch if he absolutely can't stand it. That's all.
Its not a "glitch" though, its the synchro working as intended...

Look, you're right that double clutching would "fix" the notchy shift. But IMO, that's not the best advice for a someone who said this is their first manual car. We're dealing with an inexperienced manual driver. He might not even know what double clutching is, or how to do it properly for all we know. Plus, this is a modern, synchronized transmission. Double clutching is unnecessary in almost every situation. So, I think spouting off about double clutching to solve a nonexistent 5th gear synchro "glitch" rather than just telling him to shift properly is isn't the best advice for this particular situation.

OP: "My downshift into 5th feels notchy, what do you guys think?

You:

(just jokes, no disrespect intended)

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Hmm... Downshifting at 70mph probably isn't the best place to learn how to shift smoothly. Anyway, as already mentioned, blipping with the clutch pressed isn't going to affect getting into gear. So there really is no advantage in blipping in neutral then moving into the final gear. If anything, this lengthens the time between the blip and letting the clutch go.
I mean yeah, a 70mph downshift into 5th isn't the best situation to learn how to shift smoothly, but I'm not sitting in the car with the dude teaching him how to drive stick. I'm posting on a forum trying to give him advice on how to make his 70mph downshift into 5th smoother lol.

Also, I don't recall saying to blip in neutral and then move into 5th, so I'm not really sure why you're talking about that.

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Just clutch in, make the whole shift in one go, blip to a close enough rpm, then let the clutch go right away.
Yes? That's essentially what I've been saying. But, I emphasized not slamming the shifter into place because the synchro needs an extra quarter second or whatever to do its job. Slam the shifter into 5th: notchy. Gently applying pressure to get the shifter to fall into place: not notchy. Double clutching: also not notchy, but really overcomplicating the issue at hand.
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Old 12-06-2018, 02:42 PM   #48
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Discussions of driving a manual and using a clutch remind me of that assignment.
I could show somebody in about 10 seconds. I gave up trying to give shifting instructions beyond "don't grasp your knob" a couple of years ago.
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Its not a "glitch" though, its the synchro working as intended...

Look, you're right that double clutching would "fix" the notchy shift. But IMO, that's not the best advice for a someone who said this is their first manual car. We're dealing with an inexperienced manual driver. He might not even know what double clutching is, or how to do it properly for all we know. Plus, this is a modern, synchronized transmission. Double clutching is unnecessary in almost every situation. So, I think spouting off about double clutching to solve a nonexistent 5th gear synchro "glitch" rather than just telling him to shift properly is isn't the best advice for this particular situation.

OP: "My downshift into 5th feels notchy, what do you guys think?

You:

(just jokes, no disrespect intended)



I mean yeah, a 70mph downshift into 5th isn't the best situation to learn how to shift smoothly, but I'm not sitting in the car with the dude teaching him how to drive stick. I'm posting on a forum trying to give him advice on how to make his 70mph downshift into 5th smoother lol.

Also, I don't recall saying to blip in neutral and then move into 5th, so I'm not really sure why you're talking about that.



Yes? That's essentially what I've been saying. But, I emphasized not slamming the shifter into place because the synchro needs an extra quarter second or whatever to do its job. Slam the shifter into 5th: notchy. Gently applying pressure to get the shifter to fall into place: not notchy. Double clutching: also not notchy, but really overcomplicating the issue at hand.

The last vehicle that I had to double clutch was a 1961 Army jeep but that was about 35 years ago. Double clutching a synchro tranny is not needed at any time if you have the revs right. There are many that will argue that point but that is reality. If somebody needs to double clutch all the time they have either broken their transmission or just can't hit the right range of revs.
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Old 12-06-2018, 02:49 PM   #49
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"don't grasp your knob"
What, am I gonna develop hairy palms?

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The last vehicle that I had to double clutch was a 1961 Army jeep but that was about 35 years ago. Double clutching a synchro tranny is not needed at any time if you have the revs right. There are many that will argue that point but that is reality. If somebody needs to double clutch all the time they have either broken their transmission or just can't hit the right range of revs.
I've never HAD to double clutch any manual car I've driven. I've done it a couple of times just to see what it felt like and to learn something, but I don't think I've ever done it driving normally.

As for the "double clutch from 2nd to 1st" situation I know someone will bring up again, I downshift into first at like 15-20 mph almost every day pulling into the parking lot at my job with no issues. Whether that's considered "non-trivial" speed I dont know, but I've literally never had to double clutch to do it, that's for sure.
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Old 12-06-2018, 03:01 PM   #50
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What, am I gonna develop hairy palms?



I've never HAD to double clutch any manual car I've driven. I've done it a couple of times just to see what it felt like and to learn something, but I don't think I've ever done it driving normally.

As for the "double clutch from 2nd to 1st" situation I know someone will bring up again, I downshift into first at like 15-20 mph almost every day pulling into the parking lot at my job with no issues. Whether that's considered "non-trivial" speed I dont know, but I've literally never had to double clutch to do it, that's for sure.
I have driven many vehicles that you did indeed have to double clutch but none of them had synchroed trannys. It is a whole new driving experience!
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Old 12-06-2018, 03:11 PM   #51
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Its not a "glitch" though, its the synchro working as intended...

Look, you're right that double clutching would "fix" the notchy shift. But IMO, that's not the best advice for a someone who said this is their first manual car. We're dealing with an inexperienced manual driver. He might not even know what double clutching is, or how to do it properly for all we know. Plus, this is a modern, synchronized transmission. Double clutching is unnecessary in almost every situation. So, I think spouting off about double clutching to solve a nonexistent 5th gear synchro "glitch" rather than just telling him to shift properly is isn't the best advice for this particular situation.
Umm... Reduction to absurdity: If working off a premise leads to ridiculous conclusion, the premise is suspect. As for advise, I absolutely do not provide them anywhere. Just pointing out to the people how strange the situation is and let them see for themselves, or not

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[...] I don't recall saying to blip in neutral and then move into 5th, so I'm not really sure why you're talking about that. [...]
Something like this perhaps?

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[...] Light blip of the throttle, gentle but firm pressure on the shifter, and you'll feel it slip into gear like it should.[...]
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Old 12-06-2018, 03:18 PM   #52
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Umm... Reduction to absurdity: If working off a premise leads to ridiculous conclusion, the premise is suspect. As for advise, I absolutely do not provide them anywhere. Just pointing out to the people how strange the situation is and let them see for themselves, or not


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Something like this perhaps?
Lol, that was intended to read as general advice, not step-by-step instructions. But, I see your point. Just a misunderstanding then.
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