New Turbo Coupe Honda S2000

[Levi]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

I didn't ooooo and ahhhh at the LaFerrari or the 918 or the P1. I saw the performance figures and I saw the price tag and I thought: "Well, that adds up.. with a price like that it better perform like that." There's no magic, it's only calculus. If broaching the limits of technology = oooohhs and aaaahhs, then the Driverless Google car really ought to get enthusiasts excited...

Rewind to 1990; what made us oooh and aaaah for the NSX was that it was "attainable" by the common man yet it outclassed just about everything save the F40. The sum of the parts exceeded the calculus. It punched way above its price tag. Today, the car that achieves that goal isn't made by Honda, it's made by Nissan; the GTR. The original NSX was also dead nuts reliable, easy to work on and could be driven around town in comfort. Ain't nobody doing that with a F40 or Diablo.

I just don't think Honda is going to deliver that a second time. Why? Economics and physics. The economics of the advanced technologies won't allow Honda to repeat what they did with the original and the technology of today (and tomorrow) puts everything already at the limits of physics that there's really no more huge gains to be had. Everyone has already exceeded, to a degree, what the tire touching the pavement can do and beyond that there just ain't much more.

Deliver a new NSX at or under 100k that's Accord reliable while performing close to the current top supercars. Then I'll ooooohhh and aaaaaahhh like I did in the early 90's.


We don't need the exotic Type Rs, we just need their normal cars to have some performance in their soul, instead of 3000lb boats with MacPherson struts. I still think an S2000 coupe with 4 seats @ $30k would have been a winner.



They need to stop measuring their wangs at the Nordschleife and just get back to basics before their fan base completely dries up and their only selling point is: "Yeah, we know it's ugly and boring, by hey.. it's reliable!"

Honda S2000 and NSX have never been affordable, thus so unsuccessful.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Levi

Honda S2000 and NSX have never been affordable, thus so unsuccessful.

The S2000 was affordable here. Expensive in Germany but every car I looked at was expensive in Germany

The OTD price on my S2000 was about $2,000 more than my BRZ.

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by Levi

Honda S2000 and NSX have never been affordable, thus so unsuccessful.

I guess we just see it differently because to me the NSX was always considered the "affordable supercar" in its time.

The S2000 was a 4 cylinder with a 6 cylinder price tag IMHO.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

I guess we just see it differently because to me the NSX was always considered the "affordable supercar" in its time.

I agree with that. The NSX was faster and better than Ferrari's 348 ($118k) when it was released, and only cost $60k.

But the NSX's price rapidly increased to $90k, and Ferrari quickly came out with the 355, then 360, 430, etc. All while the NSX's price and performance remained essentially unchanged.

The NSX went from being a bargain supercar beater to outdated and overpriced.

$60k in 1991 is about $105k today. If Honda/Acura could release an MR supercar that matched the $230k Ferrari 458 in performance for $105k, I would be very impressed.

[CyberFormula]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

The NSX went from being a bargain supercar beater to outdated and overpriced.

Sounds similar to a car we knew a few years back....

[Levi]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I agree with that. The NSX was faster and better than Ferrari's 348 ($118k) when it was released, and only cost $60k.

But the NSX's price rapidly increased to $90k, and Ferrari quickly came out with the 355, then 360, 430, etc. All while the NSX's price and performance remained essentially unchanged.

The NSX went from being a bargain supercar beater to outdated and overpriced.

$60k in 1991 is about $105k today. If Honda/Acura could release an MR supercar that matched the $230k Ferrari 458 in performance for $105k, I would be very impressed.

And if the NSX out-does the 458 Italia in terms of stright-line performance, lap-times, handling, and consumption for 150K?

There is alot of difference between the first NSX and the NSX II. There is as much tech as in the 918 Spyder, P1 and LeFerrari.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by CyberFormula

Sounds similar to a car we knew a few years back....

I'm not sure which car you're talking about, but it does seem to happen to a lot of budget sporty cars. People complained that the 2008 STI didn't offer significant performance gains over the outgoing GD STI's. Or are you referring to the S2000?

Originally Posted by Levi

And if the NSX out-does the 458 Italia in terms of stright-line performance, lap-times, handling, and consumption for 150K?

There is alot of difference between the first NSX and the NSX II. There is as much tech as in the 918 Spyder, P1 and LeFerrari.

Yeah I agree, I don't think the new NSX is designed to be a 458 competitor. It's more like a baby 918/P1/LeFerrari. It won't come close to matching the latter three in terms of performance, but it won't cost nearly as much either.

What I was getting at in my post was I would love for Honda/Acura to release an MR supercar that's around $100k, not hybrid, that would beat the 458 in performance for less than half the price. Basically what Honda did to Ferrari's old 348, I'd love to see them do to the current 458.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

What I was getting at in my post was I would love for Honda/Acura to release an MR supercar that's around $100k, not hybrid, that would beat the 458 in performance for less than half the price. Basically what Honda did to Ferrari's old 348, I'd love to see them do to the current 458.

That would be an easy target, just use a turbo. But then what's the point, there are already turbo 458 rivals out there.

I would rather see them build something below 80k, less is better. Aside from Mercedes land-yachts, the 100k price point is not where people tend to shop. What is the point in chasing after Ferrari and their 500+ hp monsters?

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

That would be an easy target, just use a turbo. But then what's the point, there are already turbo 458 rivals out there.

I would rather see them build something below 80k, less is better. Aside from Mercedes land-yachts, the 100k price point is not where people tend to shop. What is the point in chasing after Ferrari and their 500+ hp monsters?

Is it really an easy target though? I can't think of any cars out there that clearly beat the 458 Italia in performance (including subjective performance -- feedback, balance, etc.) for $100k or under.

GT-R: No
R8: No
911: No
C6Z: Objectively - probably not, Subjectively - No
Viper ACR: Not really a street car

Matching Ferrari at less than half the cost would be a huge accomplishment IMO. It would also put Acura back on the performance map and give them a halo car again. Acura car sales lately have been awful. They had a lot of success when they were known as a semi-luxury, sporty, but value-conscious brand. Beating Ferrari at its own game would be a nice first step in their comeback.

[Jyn]

The limiting factor is: regulations.

Look at what must be included on cars now, and what will be mandated in the future. Take that across the globe, factor in the costs associated with having to put manpower in planning and execution for that, and you'll begin to see the difficulties in just the logistics of making these cars and why their prices continue to go up.

It's a wonder how we even get enthusiast cars like ours in this day and age. Business-wise, there's really not much sense in it.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Is it really an easy target though? I can't think of any cars out there that clearly beat the 458 Italia in performance (including subjective performance -- feedback, balance, etc.) for $100k or under.

Subjective performance is not completely relevant because in this range it's not so much a matter of money as it is design, plus it's subjective.

I bet Audi could make the R8 match the 458 if they wanted.

[vh_supra26]

Could be built in Ohio

According to a recent report, Honda has green-lighted an S2000 successor.

Details are limited but Motoring says the model will be a coupe with a mid-mounted engine. This would be a radical departure as the previous S2000 was a front-engine roadster.

Regardless, the website says the car will use a revised version of the turbocharged 2.0-liter four-cylinder engine that powers the Civic Type-R.

It will reportedly be backed up by an electric motor which will give the model a combined output of roughly 365 bhp (272 kW). The powertrain is slated to be connected to seven-speed dual-clutch transmission which sends power to the rear wheels.

If everything pans out, the S2000 successor will be built alongside the Acura / Honda NSX at the company's new Performance Manufacturing Center in Ohio.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/11408017...e-a-mid-engine

[vh_supra26]

I guess this was the "baby NSX" that has been rumored since the NSX concept debuted.

[DarkSunrise]

Interesting. I would guess this would be priced close to Cayman/Alpha 4c territory ($50k). Give it a manual please.