Everyday Driver - ND Miata vs. FR-S vs. BRZ

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Entroper

I was actually impressed that it was only 0.4 inches, given the upright I4 engine.

Yeah but that's because the Mx5 sits lower overall by 2 inches in height. I would assume if the 86 was the same height as the 2016 the CoG would be much more of a difference.

[Entroper]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

Yeah but that's because the Mx5 sits lower overall by 2 inches in height. I would assume if the 86 was the same height as the 2016 the CoG would be much more of a difference.

I mean, the top of the roof is lower, but it would surprise me if the ride height was any lower.

[totopo]

Originally Posted by Entroper

I mean, the top of the roof is lower, but it would surprise me if the ride height was any lower.

ground clearance is the same, 4.9"

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Entroper

I mean, the top of the roof is lower, but it would surprise me if the ride height was any lower.

If that's the case then the difference a flat engine brings is nothing to write home about.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

If that's the case then the difference a flat engine brings is nothing to write home about.

Haha not really a scientifically sound test if you know what I mean.

[DarkSunrise]

Couple of interesting comments from David Coleman (Mazda's engineering manager responsible for the 2016 US-spec Miata) about suspension tuning on Elise/BRZ vs. ND Miata. Good summary of the philosophical differences:

What makes these roads important?

DC: There are just hundreds and hundreds of miles of the most dynamic twisty roads up here [north of Los Angeles]. But these are incredibly good test roads because they are not only twisty, they're bumpy and uneven and upset the car, and there are all sorts of complicated transitions. You have to have a car dialed-in really well for it to do well on roads this complex.

This is a really good second- or third-gear car. That's the magic of it. You can have a lot of fun without going that fast. This road we're on now [Little Tujunga Canyon Road] was really to secure this car's position as a Miata. This is the kind of road where Miatas have always been good.

Where else did you go?

DC: We also went over to Angeles Crest Highway, which is a much higher-speed, flowing road, and that's where we tested a Lotus Elise and Subaru BRZ that we were benchmarking. Those cars don't do well on these supertight roads, but they really come into their own on those higher-speed sweepers, and that's where the older Miatas would kind of fall apart. We kept bouncing back and forth on those roads, trying to get this car to stay true to itself on tight stuff but play with those guys on the fast stuff.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...at-sports-car/

[bcj]

Was on both those roads when I was down there. The 86 did fine.
If you want a real test, have a rattle up Pierce Pt. road in Pt. Reyes.

[Justin.b]

I would have expected the 86 to do better at high speeds. It has a longer wheelbase and wider track vs. the Miata.

-Justin

[val_lixembeau]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

If that's the case then the difference a flat engine brings is nothing to write home about.

That's basically what I feel.

The flat engine is supposed to allow a low hood. MX5 hood looks just as low. COG is not too much higher either.

Flat engine is also short longitudinally so it can be mounted far back. Yet MX5 manages to get the entire engine behind the front axle while the boxer doesn't fit (I guess because of it's width? Or is that solely by design?)

Not sure what the boxer design is really buying the GT86.

[Entroper]

Originally Posted by val_lixembeau

That's basically what I feel.

The flat engine is supposed to allow a low hood. MX5 hood looks just as low. COG is not too much higher either.

Flat engine is also short longitudinally so it can be mounted far back. Yet MX5 manages to get the entire engine behind the front axle while the boxer doesn't fit (I guess because of it's width? Or is that solely by design?)

Not sure what the boxer design is really buying the GT86.

It's an interesting question, but it might not be best answered by a comparison to the MX-5, at least not without considering other factors. The Miata is a bit lower overall, and a convertible, so it naturally has a CoG advantage. It's also a 2-seater, which means the driver's seat can be placed farther back from the front axle, leaving more room to move the engine and transmission rearward.

[BoulderGeek]

I was on a hardcore hunt for a proper sporting Miata, in Winter and Spring, 2015. Looking at NBs and NCs, Mazdaspeed MX5s. I really thought that I wanted a Miata. And as a 210lb, 6-footer, they always made me claustrophobic and compromised.

So, I got the Miata I really wanted, a Porsche 944. And then spent 10 weekends in a row in the garage with it, and $1500 in parts just after I bought it. Now I have a nice, fun sporting coupe. Not full open-top, but with a large removable sunroof, and none of the open-top compromises to handling and comfort.

Every time I see an FRS/BRZ, i think it looks like the modern successor to the 944. The 944 is at the end of the road for power upgrades, being chipped and better exhaust. But, the twins seem to have lots of cost-effective options available. And, owning a 944 with adjustable Konis and springs shows me that I care more about handling than raw power. As a 30-year licensed motorcyclist with 120K miles of two wheeled adventures, I have always thought that finesse beats raw power. You see all sorts of kids who think they are Superman when going WOT on their R1 or Hayabusa on the straights. But, when it gets twisty, somehow they are all buttcracks and brake lights, when the trained pilot slips right on by.

[val_lixembeau]

Originally Posted by Entroper

It's an interesting question, but it might not be best answered by a comparison to the MX-5, at least not without considering other factors. The Miata is a bit lower overall, and a convertible, so it naturally has a CoG advantage. It's also a 2-seater, which means the driver's seat can be placed farther back from the front axle, leaving more room to move the engine and transmission rearward.

Not sure I agree with your thoughts.

It depends exactly what you mean by low, but the Miata has pretty good suspension travel; for sure it feels like more than the twins have so I'm skeptical that it can have lower ride height.

It's a two seater true, but it also has a shorter wheelbase, so not necessarily more space to let the engine move back. I think it is more a case that Mazda has never been afraid to let the transmission intrude into the passenger compartment (ie: see RX-8 and past Miatas etc).

Anyways, both cars are pretty awesome. I just wish the twins were just that bit MORE awesome