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Old 06-13-2016, 06:17 PM   #15
P3tras
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Moving forward.

Ran wires to passenger door as well:


3D printed adapters for mids worked great! I am glad that I have drawn them correctly, as I did that at 2'o clock (at night). Everything lined up perfectly.


Resoldered wires on tweeters to higher quality ones. Tweeter was firstly glued with CA glue and later-on I secured it with hot glue. Added some foam tape where mid adapter touches plastic panel. Tweeters and mids are already installed and connected to crossovers.


Plastic cover in door is rattle prone. Added some foam tape to prevent that. Now there is less resonance when knocking on inner door panel (plastic does not rattle).



Installed speaker adapter and covered doors. Passenger door is nearly finished


On driver's door I decided to sort the issue with missing pad, that causes window to sequel when it's wet. Unscrews window from its mechanism (2 nuts) and dropped it all the way down inside the doors. That gave just enough space to remove plastic holder:




Reglued pad with CA glue. I hope it will hold. I have no idea how it came loose as windows presses against it. Probably it froze up during winter and was pulled off (as plastic is also deformed).
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Old 06-18-2016, 03:16 PM   #16
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System is up and running. Did not make so many photos during last steps.

Installed sound absorber on speaker grille, door cards (also rear plastic panels + rear deck which are not installed, yet).




Made "roof" on speaker adapters from 1mm PVC sheet. BRZ doors leak quite a lot of water inside and I did not want my new speakers have water dropping on them. I also found that outer windows seals do not actually press against windows (there is slight gap). Only one screw needs to be loosened to adjust it, though.



Speakers installed in doors and soldered:



I made low level RCA cables using Mogami Neglex cable (quadstar) and Neutrik Profi RCA connectors. From head-unit they go to subwoofer amplifier (which is not in use right now) and from it to main speakers amplifier.

First I tested system as shown in picture above and - was underwhelmed. Tweeters stood out too much, there was no real bass. But I soon realized that doors are not sealed at all, as there is huge hole at top. It transformed the system when I installed door cards. It sounds very good with EQ totally flat and no bass boost whatsoever. All mirrors are shaking when I crank up volume, but best thing is that there are no rattles that I can hear. Outside side mirrors and driver's door handle rattle a bit, but you can only hear it if you are very close to them. All insulation on doors definitely paid off. Highs are very clear as well, but it feels that it requires some adjustment. Seems like one frequency stands out a little.

There is very slight high frequency noise from the speakers when engine is started. Not sure if it increases with RPM, as engine gets louder than the noise (plus I have after-market exhaust). Right now I do not have ideas how to fix it, might leave it as-is because it hardly noticeable (I am using high quality shielded quad-star cables, thus they shouldn't pick up interference).

Right now I need to finish everything (reassemble interior, clean-up wiring). Also need to fix subwoofer amplifier, as right not it is held on rear deck with one screw and a zip tie (RCA cables go from head-unit to subwoofer amplifier and then to main speakers amplifier).

By the way, got Rockford Fosgate 3.5" coaxials for rear. I feel that rear speakers definitely give more "space" to the sound. Even with stock rear speakers I liked system more with rear speakers hooked. It did not feel that all sound is coming from front.

Tuning will be done using Viper4Android software (but first, I need to root my head-unit). According to my research, it is best and most powerful DSP for android. It has 10 band EQ (never seen one with more bands for Android) + it seems I will be able to set time delay between left and right speakers. Not perfect, as I won't be able to set individual speakers, but still better than nothing.
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Old 06-21-2016, 01:50 PM   #17
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Love the progress!
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Old 06-21-2016, 02:39 PM   #18
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I used Viper for a long time on android 4.4
You can load impulse responses into it to use with the convolver, which admittedly I didn't use much, but another member here, I think @sly, was talking about how to measure an impulse response specifically for your car using laptop software. could be neat to try out if you are going Viper4Android.
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Old 06-21-2016, 05:15 PM   #19
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With everything that went into this build, what do you think about the compromises of having the mids and tweeter firing right into the windshield?

For all your effort and quality of materials, I think it's worth it to look at doing some custom A-pillars and point the upper end speakers exactly how you want them.

I understand you want a subtle look, everything else seems to be done with a no compromises attitude.
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Old 06-21-2016, 11:59 PM   #20
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Depending on where he crosses over each speaker, aiming may not matter. Speakers are omnidirectional below their beaming point.
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Old 06-22-2016, 01:21 AM   #21
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Those tweeters are 2" in diameter. A frequency with a 2" wavelength is 6.8kHz. Any frequency played above 6.8kHz will be "contained" by the tweeter's cone and become directional. Aiming is important for directional sounds. If the speaker is pointed in the wrong direction, the sound will come at you from the wrong angle as it bounces off a nearby wall or surface. If you are sufficiently off axis, you may not hear the sound at all. Wavelength calculator: http://www.1728.org/freqwavf.htm

Any frequency played below 6.8kHz will have a wide dispersion and will not be as dependant upon aiming. You can point the tweeter in any wide number of directions and the sound will stay relatively even. This is good for car audio in that you can't often place the speakers in the exact spots needed for proper imaging. Cross over your speakers as low as you safely can and you will improve your imaging significantly. The lower you let your speakers play, the better the dispersion pattern will be. The trade-off is that the lower frequency you let your speakers play, the less SPL they will put out. Also, you don't want to cross them over too low or you can overheat the tweeter and damage it.

Fortunately, human hearing picks up the majority of directional cues in the vocal range. So anywhere from 1kHz to 6kHz is predominately where you are going to hear direction. Since your tweeters are essentially omnidirectional in these frequencies, it is not that important to aim them perfectly. Just try to get them close.

The majority of your problems in aiming toward the windshield are going to be from comb filtering of the highs as the sound bounces off the glass and partially cancels out certain frequencies while boosting others. This is unavoidable in a car. Proper aiming reduces this and that's the major advantage of building custom speaker mounts aimed at the ideal angles. By mounting your speakers away from the glass, you reduce the amount of reflection you get and therefore the comb filtering.

With comb filtering, some frequencies will bounce off the glass, combine out of phase and cause cancellation. These dropouts can not easily be fixed but are also not that noticeable. What is noticeable are frequencies that bounce off the glass and combine with the tweeter's direct sound to give an artificial boost. Depending upon the angles and the wavelength, some frequencies will hit just at the right time to combine in phase with the direct sound of the tweeter. These are the frequencies you need to cut. Your ear will not hear missing frequencies as much as it will hear loud frequencies. So when tuning your tweeters, only focus on reducing the levels of frequencies that are too loud. Leave the quiet spots alone.

The problem with comb filtering is that it is very dependant upon where you are actually sitting. Move your head an inch to either side and suddenly the hotspots and the quiet spots change. So you have to take several measurements from different positions and then find the hot spots that are common to each. If you take 5 different measurements in the car and each of them show that 3kHz is too hot, then you can be relatively certain that you should cut this frequency. However if 3kHz is only hot at your listening position but nowhere else, then you might want to leave it alone. Sometimes moving your seat slightly or adjusting the tweeter's angle slightly is enough to get this reflection to go away.

tldr; cross over your tweeters as low as you safely can and only cut out the hot spots. If you don't like the way it sounds, move your head a little.

Last edited by sly; 06-22-2016 at 02:02 AM.
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Old 06-22-2016, 06:38 AM   #22
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Agreed with all above, except the frequency at which the tweeters will begin to beam. It's going to be closer to 13khz, as it's based on the diaphragm diameter and not the tweeter frame diameter.
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Old 06-22-2016, 08:46 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL View Post
Agreed with all above, except the frequency at which the tweeters will begin to beam. It's going to be closer to 13khz, as it's based on the diaphragm diameter and not the tweeter frame diameter.
Where did you see the diaphragm diameter listed? All I saw from the specs is 2" tweeter. Kind of surprised they didn't list the crossover frequency and slope...
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Old 06-22-2016, 10:50 AM   #24
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I didnt, but they did say the frame diameter was 2", so I'm making a best guess as to the diaphragm.
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Old 06-22-2016, 02:45 PM   #25
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Yea, that's one thing that surprises me... for a $900 set of speakers they don't list the specs very well. I would like to know X-max of the woofers and that isn't listed either. Without X-max you really can't determine what the best crossover points should be. If you know the power handling, efficiency and x-max, you can determine what the absolute lowest frequency these speakers can play before hitting the excursion limit.


I use this to cross over my high mids. and my low mids so that they overlap to reinforce the midrange. To really warm up the midrange of around 250Hz, I let my speakers overlap with proper time alignment so that they complement each other in this frequency band since it is so difficult to play correctly in a car. My high mids are technically playing lower than their advertised frequency response, but knowing X-max I am able to keep them from clipping. Together with the low mids, the entire midrange is very well represented. Plus as mentioned, the lower you let your speakers play, the better the dispersion. Sound just "fills" the car.
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Old 06-22-2016, 03:10 PM   #26
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Yeah, focal is horrible about being forthcoming with useful specs. I haven't downloaded the user manual to see if ts specs are in there, but that's the minimum that should be published, even better if frequency response is shown.


But I have an upcoming project to deal with that.
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Old 06-22-2016, 03:35 PM   #27
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Well if you come up with a test stand for loudspeakers, do share. I would like to do some testing of some old Polk Mobile Monitors I want to use for my next project.
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Old 06-24-2016, 07:34 AM   #28
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Hey guys,

Wow, I missed some of the conversation. Sorry I wasn't active here, got very involved in testing phase (was not sure if anyone is interested ).

I agree with you all. Did some frequency testing and got some good and bad news.
The good news: everything is quite good with low frequencies. Door speakers play as low as ~45hz (then it response steeply drops), although there is another spike at ~35hz. Mids are also looking good
The bad: There was a HUGE hole in 7-9khz range, which is very important. We were quite sure that it is not caused by tweeters, as we tested them before installing in car (although test was done with ear). At first I though that it may be related with reflection from the window. Removed speaker grille with tweeter and aimed straight to the mic. Got virtually the same response (quite good news, as reflection from window did not cause any noticeable problems). Then all that was left - to tear out tweeters and test them alone. Wholia - they sound very good.

Cause of the issue - stock tweeter is smaller, thus hole in speaker grille is smaller as well. That causes some kind of acoustic resistance in 6-9khz range. Then it was time for modifying. Drilled new row of holes after cutting some of the plastic (wall that presses against stock tweeter foam). It was better, but not quite there. Then drilled some outer holes at ~45 degrees and enlarged all holes to 2.5mm (from 2mm). That was all stock grille could handle. Tested it - excellent results. The dip is gone, although sound from the window is indeed quite directional. At some positions response is quite bad, but fortunately best response was near listeners ears (the best response was near right ear - test done in passenger seat).

Here are frequency response chart from day 1 testing (no mods to speaker grille). Mic was mainly held with hand, so please do not look at actual volume levels. What matters in this case is general shape of the curve (fine tuning will come in later).

Explanation of colors:
Yellow - response with all speakers as I installed them in car.
Green - tweeters disconnected.
Blue - mids disconnected.
Orange - tweeter alone (aimed to the mic) with its stock focal speaker grille.
Red - tweeter alone without its stock grille



It is not so visible in this photo, but generally tweeter did perform better with its grille than in free-air condition. Maybe it is because of this small metal piece that acts as deflector?


Also, installed rockford speakers in the rear. I can say they are nice addition. Not extremely high-end speakers, but they do not have any bad tendencies as stock speakers. I do not have screen-shot of frequency response, but it is kind of inverted U letter shape. They play fine down to ~130hz (something at 120hz and bellow that they are dead). There is a huge hole at ~400hz if I remember correctly. High end response gradually goes down from ~10khz right to 20khz (with small peak at 20khz). They did not have any big spikes, which is best thing.


Not visible in that photo, but later on I sealed them best as I could with extra foam.

Wow, it's a long post need to end it. Right now I am thinking about completely modifying stock speaker grille using supplied focal grilles (which would allow aim to tweeter as I wish) But they would still reflect from windshield, as they need to be in phase with mids. I could make custom A pillar mount for both mids and tweeters. But mids in A pillar is not esthetically pleasing for me. Right now they perform OK with modified Subaru grille, but it looks like sh*t. Plastic has white shade where it was drilled. I could try to repaint, but I doubt it would look good.

Focal has all the specs for the speakers, but you need to dig for them:
Data sheet for woofers
Data sheet for mids
Data sheet for tweeters

P.S. Doubt anyone could help with this, but Viper4Android sees the system as internal phone speaker. It still works, but has less settings. Main setting that I want to try is " Differential Surround" which makes delay between left and right speakers (you can set it 1-30ms). No idea which speaker it delays, but I want to test it. However this setting is only available in "head-set" mode. Any ideas how to trick Viper4Android that head-set is plugged in? Fortunately, EQ and Convolver is still available in "phone speaker" mode.
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