A little strategy & rubber advice needed

[ultra]

I'm going to compete in local time attack soon. I'm missing the second event due to my race license being late, so I have a little time to think about how to get faster before the next round.

My goals are to:

a) Find a way to maximize my allowances in my class (Super Street as per the regulations and organizers), while staying N/A.

b) Try and become the fastest 86/BRZ in the country, or get as close as I can to that. There's already a turbo BRZ in the same class running on semislicks which is plenty quick (and is currently the fastest 86/BRZ in the country) so the competition's pretty steep.

Edit: Rules & regulations are here:
http://www.extremesuperlap.com/rules...s-Final-v3.pdf

Current mods include a full header back + tune (189whp), a good suspension and alignment setup, mild weight reduction, an Alcon BBK and 225/40/18 Michelin PS2s. I've already shaved as much time as I can on my local track, give or take a little better or worse driving from me. It's very well set up for what it is and I'm very happy with it in terms of handling balance, etc.

I need to consider my options for going faster and would like some advice in terms of what direction to go in.

I'm thinking that the rubber area is an obvious place to start. Am debating between the following options:

1. Swapping the PS2s for something like RS3s or AD08Rs.

Pros: Cheaper and more convenient. I'd get to keep DDing the car without having to swap rims for the track.
Cons: I'm already down on power and I'd still likely be down on grip compared to the other cars in the class.

Would I get a noticeable gain from this kind of move? Would it be somewhat comparable to a car running semislicks such as NT01s or R888s? If not, probably not worth it for me, unless I were to decide to just not compete or they were to invent a special 'modded street tire' class for me (highly unlikely).


2. Get some semislicks and running them as a daily tire.

I don't out much mileage on my car so I'm considering this approach. Question is which rubber would work the best and whether it's feasible. Would they just heat cycle out to nothing in a flash? Or would it be a feasible option if I can stand the noise? Are there any quiet running semislicks out there with comparable grip to the R888s and NT01s?

Pros: Relatively cheap and still quite convenient. Hopefullly a decent performance increase.
Cons: Afraid of heat cycling them out super fast. Noise from tires like R888s or NT01s can be annoying.


3. Get semislicks and track rims.

This would seem to be the default option if I want to win class trophies, which I probably wouldn't since there's a Turbo BRZ in the same class. Also depends on how feasible option 2 is, versus the benefits from option 4 below.

Pros: Would put me on an even grip level with the rest of the class I'm in (although I'd still be underpowered). Tires would last much longer too.
Cons: The cost, plus the hassle of storing and swapping the extra rims prior to track events.



4. Get the stickiest DOT slicks I can find and track rims

This would end up with me running in a higher class that I'll get destroyed in but possible shooting for the 'fastest 86' in terms of overall times, which might make it worth it. Unsure what rubber size to aim for though, as well as which tire to choose.

Pros: I'd hopefully get enough extra grip from something like Hoosiers, BFG R1s, V710s or similar to make up time on the more powerful BRZ in the lower class.
Cons: Don't know if I could still drive to events on this type of tire. If I'd have to swap at the track it'd be slightly annoying. Also might put me in a tricky situation where I'd get bumped up to the Modified class, which mandates a roll cage. Do not want to cage my daily!



I'm also very curious about the potential power benefits to be had from tuning my car for VP race fuel since I already have an ECUTEX tune, and using ECUTEK map switching since it'd be cheaper than a turbo kit. Unsure what the power gains over stock would be though, and in particular if it'd help to close the power gap versus an entry level F/I car. Any advice in this area welcome!

Any other advice on how to max my car out in light of the regulations above would be much appreciated!

[n8dog11914]

If you are dead set on being the fastest, then you need to get a 2nd set of track rims with the semi-slick tires.

If you are that much on a budget, why not purchase a set of used OEM wheels as the 2nd set of rims for the track tires?

[7thgear]

dubai..
desire to be #1..
but low budget

good luck.

but really you haven't told us what your actual experience is. How long have you been driving and what race track(s) will you be competeting at.

[ultra]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

dubai..
desire to be #1..
but low budget

good luck.

but really you haven't told us what your actual experience is. How long have you been driving and what race track(s) will you be competeting at.

I'm a realist. I'm not hell bent on being number one but it'd be nice to at least be able to put some heat on that turbo car. I'd love to see how close I can get to an F/I car in an N/A car. If I can't beat it I'd really love to catch it. Worst case I'd just like to give it a really good run.

I have about ten years worth of track, karting and autocross experience. I'm not the best driver out here but I'd say I'm competent.

Venues are the Yas Marina South configuration and the Dubai Autodrome Club Circuit, which is my 'home' circuit. They're both relatively short courses.

So, do you have any advice to share in terms of rubber, setup and/or race fuel? Did you read the regulations? If you did you'd notice that there's a bunch of class limitations that 'conveniently' limit me in certain areas (aero, weight savings).

[7thgear]

Well, first of all, you want the stickiest tire, period. So whatever the best tire this series allows that you can get locally, you get it.

Second of all, why are you on 18s and 255s on stock power? Get yourself back on 17s (x8.5-9) and limit your tire to 235 tops.

The 255s are robbing you of too much speed.

BBK was probably overkill, but since you have it, just ensure you have the best, fresh pad on it and ensure your lines are top notch.


What suspension do you have and how is it dialed in?

[ultra]

@7thgear My bad - I typed 255 when I should have typed in 225/40/18. I'm running 8 inch wide rims.

My BBK is an issue in terms of wheel clearance. 17 inch rims seem to clear diameter wise but offset and clearance issues are a bit of a PITA. Your advice on going back to 17s is good though - I'll look into that.

Due to the 100 UTQG rule here I'm basically limited to NT01s or R888s. Most guys run R888s. Wish Maxxis had RC1s that would fit. Any preference between NT01s and R888s? I hear they're pretty much from the same source; different moulds is all.

Thanks!

[7thgear]

people around here like the NT01s, i don't think i personally know anyone that was ever happy with their R888s

People compare the NT01s to the RA1, which is/was an awesome tire. R888s seem to be too greasy for people, so given the climate in Dubai i'd see how others in your area are responding to them.

[ultra]

I've run R888s before and they do grease up bad during longer sessions. Viable fallback option though i guess. Since I'm going to have to order tires from overseas anyways I might look at some NT01s.

Might try out some Maxxis RC1s since they seem to have them for sale online in 235/40/17. Should be less noisy on the street at least (DOT slick shape) but i suppose I don't care much about that. Don't know how the RC1s compare though. Good initial feedback but there's quite a lack of actual data on them, anecdotal or otherwise.

Thanks for advice!

[SpeedR]

If the BBK has added ANY weight take it off.
lose the 18s
lighten everything you can legally.
do you have to have a passenger seat if so get a cheep small aluminum one. rear seats? battery? stereo? speakers? lose it if you can live with out it.

your best and cheapest hope is to get your power to weight as close as possible to the FI guys.

[CSG Mike]

Get a set of 17x8 track wheels, and run the tire of your choice in 195-225 sizes, depending on the compound to balance grip and speed.

225 RS3, 195 or 205 if you go Hoosier.

Why not go FI? Then you have more power, AND more grip from being able to properly utilize a wider tire.

[kevman_101]

Drop the BBK and go back to 17`s. Since it`s time attack, your only looking to get the fastest time right? So running a stock rotor and caliper, with track pads, SS lines and high quality brake fluid should give you enough stopping power for a lap or 2. Or look for a smaller BBK that is lightweight and can fit 17`s over them if you find the brakes too touchy, or if they give out too much. You could also try to fabricate some brake ducts to help cool the stock system before buying another kit.

Also drop the most weight as you can and feel comfortable with and within the rules. Also, either take a look at Ethanol fuel if it`s available. If it is, try to find information on both VP fuels and Ethanol. Maybe give VP a call and talk to them for what fuel would better suit your application and then compare to Ethanol. Ethanol can post some wicked good numbers and it`s really cheap.

How much power do you think the turbo guy is running?

[ultra]

The turbo guy is running an AVO kit, setup unknown, stock suspension and sticky tires.
@7thgear was wondering about my setup.
I've got a fairly well evolved setup at the moment: RS*R coilovers with 6f/7r rates, 20mm lower. -3 canber front, -2 rear with 0 toe. Hotchkiss front and rear sway bars both set to full soft. Whiteline front roll centre kit, AVO front caster bushings, Whiteline rear camber correction kit and positive traction kit. Car has been corner balanced. Handles very well - I can push it very hard on track (get on the power early and keep it there) and it's very forgiving.

I run 189.5 whp though a JDL header, JDL overpipe and HKS Hi power front, mid and rear section with an ECUtek tune.

Exhaust saves weight, braille 11lb battery saves weight, trunk junk is deleted, The 18 inch OZ Ultraleggeras on my car weigh the same as the stock 17 inch rims do.
@CSG Mike
Why not go FI? Money and risk really. It's not only the cost of the kit - there's installation and tuning, then extras such as clutches or other uprated parts, plus supporting mods such as cooling. Then you need to pray that it all stays together. I'd wager that a good track FI setup will easily run twice the price of the basic kits for a typical person.


Tires are a definite to look at.

For easy extra weight savings within the regs I'm not sure - was thinking of emptying the washer fluid reservoir out and a back seat delete from backseatdelete.com plus some race seats but races eats are a bit spendy versus the benefit. The regulations are pretty restrictive if interpreted literally though.

For extra power I was thinking of a race fuel tune and switchable ECU map. We get VP here, I'll check on ethanol. Maybe the 4.7 or 4.55 final drice swap for better acceleration out of corners but that's not so cheap and I might find myself in bad gears in certain places on the track.

Aero - not allowed as per the regulations.

So far it's looking like 1. tires 2. sneaky weight saving 3. perhaps high octane fuel.

Thanks!

[CSG Mike]

@ultra: We've already proven that our car is sustainable with FI. Plug and play, no tuning necessary since it comes with a tune. It'll adapt to higher octane fuel too

[Racecomp Engineering]

Lets put it this way...more of your FI opponents speed is probably coming from the tires, not the turbo.

Ideally you'd do dedicated track wheel/tire set-up, FI, some weight reduction (with accompanying safety equipment!) and maybe some JRZ 4 ways while we're dreaming, but a HUGE chunk of the resulting time difference would be the tires anyway.

- Andy