The End of Diesel Cars is Near?

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by justatroll

For those that think the US govt. will allow the energy density of Li-Ion batteries to get much higher than it is now.....

YOU are high.
The Li-Ion battery of a laptop already carries the equivalent energy of a hand grenade, do you think that the govt. will allow it to get much better than that?

Training at work for Li-Ion battery handling.

They made us watch this:

That was ONE to THREE AA sized cells that caused that.
There was only superficial damage to the surrounding cells.

Meanwhile, the energy equivalent of one gallon of gasoline is...?

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Meanwhile, the energy equivalent of one gallon of gasoline is...?

One gallon of pure gasoline weighs 6lbs and is the equivalent of 33.4kWh. E10 (which is what most of us run) is 32.7kWh. Other blends will impact the rating.

Wikipedia has a decent chart showing this.

[justatroll]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Meanwhile, the energy equivalent of one gallon of gasoline is...?

And there is a reason that they won't let you take a gallon of gasoline on an airplane or into a court building.
I could be more clear: the govt will not let the energy density of li-ion batteries get much bigger without severely limiting where you can take the devices.

[Leonardo]

Originally Posted by justatroll

And there is a reason that they won't let you take a gallon of gasoline on an airplane or into a court building.
I could be more clear: the govt will not let the energy density of li-ion batteries get much bigger without severely limiting where you can take the devices.

Trust me, they all ready have. Just read through the IATA shipping manual. Or look at USPS restrictions on shipping batteries.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Leonardo

Trust me, they all ready have. Just read through the IATA shipping manual. Or look at USPS restrictions on shipping batteries.

Meanwhile an electric powered plane just set a new time to climb record.

Here's a look at the plane.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_9-V73nT1k"]Siemens's Electric Extra 330 Aircraft - YouTube[/ame]

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by justatroll

And there is a reason that they won't let you take a gallon of gasoline on an airplane or into a court building.
I could be more clear: the govt will not let the energy density of li-ion batteries get much bigger without severely limiting where you can take the devices.

Sure, but the government could place limits on energy density of a Li-ion battery for a small portable device, while at the same time not regulating their applications with automobiles. Because on that sort of scale, it's not an issue.

It wasn't that I didn't know how much energy a gallon of gasoline has - proving the point about lack of security threat given application and size.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Meanwhile an electric powered plane just set a new time to climb record.

Here's a look at the plane.

Shit's about to get real.

[rice_classic]

When the topic is 'energy density, fuels and distribution'.. the answers are complicated and very interesting.

When the topic is 'identifying the core driver of pollution that impact climate' the answer is simple yet never ever mentioned.

A human being is the single largest carbon emitter and the simple answer is that 85% of us have got to go. #jokingnotjoking

If people were really interesting in reducing their carbon footprint, they would refrain from reproduction.

[Yardjass]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

There's another factor that fits into this discussion that will hit at some point when talking costs. Highway taxes.

Right now, part of the reason electricity looks cheaper is because its getting a free ride, literally. Wet fuel cars are still paying for roads electron fueled cars are driving on. When electrics hit the point where they are a significant number, that will have to change. Either your power bill will go up, or they will convert all modes of transportation to some type of usage tax based on miles driven.

The average in the US is around $0.48 per gallon but it varies by state. Note the rate shown doesn't include the Federal $0.1840 per gallon.

I'm all for alternative fuels, but you need to have a level playing field.

To be fair, 99% of road wear is caused by heavy trucking. That's the real villain if you want to talk about a free ride, not a small number of light passenger cars that are avoiding a couple hundred dollars in road taxes every year.

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I hate to be the one to explain this, but particulate pollution, like what you can get from diesel exhaust, especially outside of the US (which has the strictest standard), is by far considerably worse than as you put it, the smaller emission compounds we're not seeing. There are proven direct links connecting particulate pollution to respiratory ailments and cancer. Meanwhile a properly functioning modern gasoline powered automobile emits CO2, water vapor and trace amounts of CO - none of which are harmful to humans.

I'm not talking about C02 and water vapor. I'm talking about particle size. The "black soot" that you can see is what everyone makes a big deal out of but it is relatively easy for the lungs to clean out, if they even make it there to begin with without being caught by mucous or nostril hairs.


Also, a gasoline engine does not emit only what you listed. It isn't by coincidence that a large percentage of the compounds they emit are the same or similar to the air that they suck in to begin with. However, it is a non-argument to assume that because what went in came back out (which has to happen by the way), that nothing else came from what was injected in from the fuel lines. Assuming that the product as a whole is safe to breathe because it is mostly made up of the same compounds as clean air is similarly flawed.

[justatroll]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

When the topic is 'energy density, fuels and distribution'.. the answers are complicated and very interesting.

When the topic is 'identifying the core driver of pollution that impact climate' the answer is simple yet never ever mentioned.

A human being is the single largest carbon emitter and the simple answer is that 85% of us have got to go. #jokingnotjoking

If people were really interesting in reducing their carbon footprint, they would refrain from reproduction.

I have been heard recently saying:
"There is NO shortage of humans on this planet"
"What challenges are there that humanity needs to solve that require more humans? Were not building pyramids manually!"

And- "The best thing for this planet right now would be one third the current number of humans"

Some people would call you Hitler for making those claims.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Yardjass

To be fair, 99% of road wear is caused by heavy trucking. That's the real villain if you want to talk about a free ride, not a small number of light passenger cars that are avoiding a couple hundred dollars in road taxes every year.

.

Yes, but heavy trucking also pays a large % of the road taxes so it's not apples to apples. In addition, I did say when the electrics get to significant enough numbers so they do make a difference. Right now they don't but if some have their way, they will and that's when changes will have to be made.

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by justatroll

Some people would call you Hitler for making those claims.

I suppose, however the credit for the 85% comment goes to a comedian.. I forget if it was Bill Burr or Louis CK. Big fans of both but the standup piece essentially alluded to what you said.. Making a comment like that will probably get you painted with the same brush as Hitler.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by Yardjass

To be fair, 99% of road wear is caused by heavy trucking. That's the real villain if you want to talk about a free ride, not a small number of light passenger cars that are avoiding a couple hundred dollars in road taxes every year.






I'm not talking about C02 and water vapor. I'm talking about particle size. The "black soot" that you can see is what everyone makes a big deal out of but it is relatively easy for the lungs to clean out, if they even make it there to begin with without being caught by mucous or nostril hairs.


Also, a gasoline engine does not emit only what you listed. It isn't by coincidence that a large percentage of the compounds they emit are the same or similar to the air that they suck in to begin with. However, it is a non-argument to assume that because what went in came back out (which has to happen by the way), that nothing else came from what was injected in from the fuel lines. Assuming that the product as a whole is safe to breathe because it is mostly made up of the same compounds as clean air is similarly flawed.

Particulate matter (PM), also known as particle pollution, is a complex mixture of extremely small particles and liquid droplets that get into the air. Once inhaled, these particles can affect the heart and lungs and cause serious health effects.

Straight from the EPA's website on the subject: https://www.epa.gov/pm-pollution

I will admit that direct fuel injection has changed the game a bit for gasoline engines. Makes them more like diesel engines, with actual soot being produced in small amounts (compared to diesel) but greater than a conventional gasoline engine. Hence the black soot seen around exhaust pipes of lots of new cars owned by lazy drivers (that don't wash their cars). My previous comments didn't really apply to them.

[Yardjass]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Straight from the EPA's website on the subject: https://www.epa.gov/pm-pollution

I will admit that direct fuel injection has changed the game a bit for gasoline engines. Makes them more like diesel engines, with actual soot being produced in small amounts (compared to diesel) but greater than a conventional gasoline engine. Hence the black soot seen around exhaust pipes of lots of new cars owned by lazy drivers (that don't wash their cars). My previous comments didn't really apply to them.

The thing you quoted says "extremely small". We are talking about the same thing here. The large ones that you can see settle out very quickly and usually don't make it into your lungs. It seems we are in agreement that the tiny ones that they're talking about are the real problem.

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Yes, but heavy trucking also pays a large % of the road taxes so it's not apples to apples. In addition, I did say when the electrics get to significant enough numbers so they do make a difference. Right now they don't but if some have their way, they will and that's when changes will have to be made.

They are subject to the same taxes on fuel as everyone else. They pay more by way of driving more and getting worse fuel economy but they still aren't paying their fair share to make up for the amount of wear they are causing.