Unofficial - CEL/SL/Idle Issue List for FR-S/BRZ Owners

[Vic]

Originally Posted by m3bassman

what do you mean you are going to remove some parts before going to the dealership?

I have crawford bpb's on along with intake and exahust. I rather have them not play the blame game cause the lights came on even before the car was modded.

[m3bassman]

So why didnt you take it in the first time it had issues before modding it? sorry if it is a dumb question but im not following the logic of modding your engine once the problem has surfaced and not been resolved?

[Vic]

Originally Posted by m3bassman

So why didnt you take it in the first time it had issues before modding it? sorry if it is a dumb question but im not following the logic of modding your engine once the problem has surfaced and not been resolved?

Sorry for the confusion man.
The first time it had happened, I pulled the battery and the codes were cleared (Car was completely stock), that was around last year. This month however, it kept coming back on daily on even if I cleared it. The car ran great for a year with mods, so that tells me that it had nothing to do with the modifications I've done to the car.

That being said, I will be keeping this thread posted on whether or not they can fix the issue.

[brz408]

Brz with 19,XXX miles threw code P0016 a couple of days ago. Dealership was backed up so they barely got to diagnose the car today. I just got off the phone with them and they said it was a bad Camshaft sensor. They replaced it.

I still need to check out the work order info as I will pick up my car in the next hour, but I sort of feel like they didn't really inspect all necessary components and just wrote it off as a bad sensor.

[zcobrausa]

I started getting the CEL and SLI light around 20,000 miles. Dealer plugged it and showed P000018 cam shaft sensor code. They said they couldn't find anything else wrong and cleared the code followed by driving it a few miles. They gave me the car back and the light came back on a block from the dealership. They scheduled me for the following week. They have had the car for 3 weeks. They have tried switching throttle and cam sensors but no luck. He said I could have it back while corporate decides what to do since the engine runs fine or I could keep the loaner. I kept the loaner since the cruise control doesn't work with the CEL and SLI lights on. I also don't think the traction control works because I noticed myself chirping the tires quite frequently and I had never done that before.

On a separate note I was talking with a Yamaha technician that works on Waverunners. He said they had a similar issue several years ago. The problem was interference from another wire running next to the wires from the cam sensors in the wiring loom. In later models they increased shielding of the wires in the loom.

[brz408]

Originally Posted by zcobrausa

I started getting the CEL and SLI light around 20,000 miles. Dealer plugged it and showed P000018 cam shaft sensor code. They said they couldn't find anything else wrong and cleared the code followed by driving it a few miles. They gave me the car back and the light came back on a block from the dealership. They scheduled me for the following week. They have had the car for 3 weeks. They have tried switching throttle and cam sensors but no luck. He said I could have it back while corporate decides what to do since the engine runs fine or I could keep the loaner. I kept the loaner since the cruise control doesn't work with the CEL and SLI lights on. I also don't think the traction control works because I noticed myself chirping the tires quite frequently and I had never done that before.

My car through P0016 per my readings and also the dealership work order. They diagnosed yesterday and they ended up replacing an outdated valve. This is what the work order states:

Performed inspection found code P0016 for camshaft performance. Inspected OSV Valve on Passenger intake bank for good lot confirmed with tech line to inspect osc valve for proper lot number. Found valve is outdated. Replaced with updated valve and reinspected.

1 10921AA230 Valve Ay Oil Cont
1 806944060 O Ring 44.0X2.6
1 16677AA040 Ring Back Up

Same as you, I drove one block and both CEL and traction light came back on. They gave me a loaner for now. They are re-diagnosing today and going to let me know how long they are going to keep my BRZ. Hopefully just until today.

[timmyah]

I recently experienced the CEL/SL.

timmyah, FRS, 23,000 miles, 2 weeks - repaired, CA

[311musick]

I've been spending most of the day reading various threads, articles, and blogs about this issue, and unfortunately, you can add me to the list... 2013 FR-S 27,700 miles in Minnesota. Bought the car brand new in 2013 and have regularly noticed idle issues and stalling at times when coming to a stop. I had the dealer reflash the ECU about a year ago, but that didn't seem to solve the issue. I had an Injen intake and determined that it was causing my car to run lean. I replaced it with a Perrin CAI and also added a Borla catback. The idle issue was still noticeable at times but not as pronounced. Two weeks ago I bought an ECUTek programming kit from Perrin along with a custom map they made for my car, in hopes this would eliminate my idle issues and increase my throttle response. It ran great for the last two weeks and today the CEL and slip light came on. The first time I've had the CEL light come on since I've owned the car. It was noticeably bogged down and would downshift hard and delayed. I took it home and reflashed the ECU with my Perrin map, and the lights went away and the car ran normal again. I did some datalogging with my ECUTek to send to Perrin, and the lights came on again. I used my ECUTek to diagnose and clear the code, and it was the P0018 Crankshaft Position - Camshaft Position Correlation Bank 2 Sensor A. It went back to running fine for about a mile and then the lights popped up and the engine went limp again. This all took place today. I'm going to call Perrin on Monday and give them my datalog and see if they think it's the map or if I have to take it to the dealer. I purchased the 7 year extended warranty, so I'm hoping it shouldn't be an issue if I have to go to the dealer... Any recent news, thoughts, or suggestions on this issue would be greatly appreciated!!

[brz408]

Originally Posted by 311musick

I've been spending most of the day reading various threads, articles, and blogs about this issue, and unfortunately, you can add me to the list... 2013 FR-S 27,700 miles in Minnesota. Bought the car brand new in 2013 and have regularly noticed idle issues and stalling at times when coming to a stop. I had the dealer reflash the ECU about a year ago, but that didn't seem to solve the issue. I had an Injen intake and determined that it was causing my car to run lean. I replaced it with a Perrin CAI and also added a Borla catback. The idle issue was still noticeable at times but not as pronounced. Two weeks ago I bought an ECUTek programming kit from Perrin along with a custom map they made for my car, in hopes this would eliminate my idle issues and increase my throttle response. It ran great for the last two weeks and today the CEL and slip light came on. The first time I've had the CEL light come on since I've owned the car. It was noticeably bogged down and would downshift hard and delayed. I took it home and reflashed the ECU with my Perrin map, and the lights went away and the car ran normal again. I did some datalogging with my ECUTek to send to Perrin, and the lights came on again. I used my ECUTek to diagnose and clear the code, and it was the P0018 Crankshaft Position - Camshaft Position Correlation Bank 2 Sensor A. It went back to running fine for about a mile and then the lights popped up and the engine went limp again. This all took place today. I'm going to call Perrin on Monday and give them my datalog and see if they think it's the map or if I have to take it to the dealer. I purchased the 7 year extended warranty, so I'm hoping it shouldn't be an issue if I have to go to the dealer... Any recent news, thoughts, or suggestions on this issue would be greatly appreciated!!

This sounds identical to my issue. Subaru had my car for a month. The work order states that they reflashed the ecm several times then they road tested and the light kept returning, and that all data logs were sent to Subaru tech support for analysis. They recommended that the dealership replace the ecm, so they did and they road tested and sent the new data logs for analysis. Car has been working fine so far for 1 week.

The main thing thats sucks is that my plans for this car have changed. Before it was to wait until the 30k/3year warranty was up to then install SC. Now its more about monitor the car and watch my miles so that the 3years hit before the 30k miles. Then I'll probably get the extended 7yr warranty when it is offered. Im also considering just moving on to something else.

Side note that I want to mention is that the car feels more responsive with the new ecm and stock map. So, im not sure if I will go back to my tune, at least not for a while.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[shiro]

Originally Posted by 311musick

I've been spending most of the day reading various threads, articles, and blogs about this issue, and unfortunately, you can add me to the list...

Originally Posted by brz408

This sounds identical to my issue. Subaru had my car for a month....

Some of the FT86s have that issues and others don't. I know when I bought mine back in 2013 I had the same issue. However, I made the mistake of moding it heavily to the point that several dealerships and Scion (Toyota Corporate) decided to wash their hands of it and stopped supporting my warranty needs. Since then, it has been a costly road but I rebuilt my engine after it finally failed and I got a proper tune done at Full Blown Motorsports. I've never had a problem with the car since (other than destroying clutches because of the sheer amount of fun I have hahaha).

Anyway, my advice for 311musick is that your extended warranty may be worth it but it sounds like you have started to do modifications (ECU) that may void your warranty if the dealership finds out. If your car does fail (engine blows, etc) then keep all ability to put the car back to stock if you decide to do a claim. Do not allow the dealership to find out you modified the ECU. You can always flash it back to stock through proper means without the dealership knowing (dealerships don't have the means to do digital forensics). As for the intake...I wouldn't worry too much about that modification. Even Lexus and Toyota sell aftermarket intakes to improve power. OTHERWISE, if you are considering doing more modification like a turbo, flexfuel kit, etc. you might as well sell the warranty and get your money back...it will be pretty much useless when you start doing major mods.

That's the best advice I can give and I'm sure many other senior members would agree. Not saying your car will fail, but our early models do seem to have the most issues: one of them being engine and ECU failure. Best of luck on your car and drive it like you mean it.

[hnnng]

FWIW 5900 miles on my MY2014 BRZ. P0018 code only. Took it to Subaru and they had it fixed in under 2 hours by replacing the Oil Control Valve. This was causing the crankshaft position sensor code P0018 and rough idle issues w/ CEL SL light. Results may vary.

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by shiro

Since then . . . I rebuilt my engine after it finally failed and I got a proper tune done at Full Blown Motorsports. I've never had a problem with the car since . . . .

I'd be curious to know how much that cost you and how long the job took.

Thanks.

[steve99]

Their appears to be two issues with cams

1. Minor manufacturing tollerance issue where ecu detects slight abnormality in cam actuator duty cycle, this can be fixed with ECU firmware update to relax tolerances.

2. More nasty one is actual mechanical problem or failure with oil control valves or cam sprocket issue as below, the highlighted part should be flush , this type of fault bleeds off oil pressure causing cam to malfunction and it appears bleeds off oil pressure to other parts of engine which may cause engine failure

see post here for full description
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1794934








it should look like

[shiro]

Originally Posted by Marrk

I'd be curious to know how much that cost you and how long the job took.

Thanks.

Well, it wasn't too cheap hahaha. My car would have been paid off by now if I didn't do any of the upgrades I've done. I'm not sure how far back it is in this thread but I have some pretty detailed posts on how long this process took and the conversations I had with Toyota/Scion Corporate. You may be interested in that.


I'd need to know what you are referring to. If you are talking about from blown engine to full rebuild I can give you an estimate. If you are referring to from my previous turbo with tune, then blown engine, and then full rebuild that is a whole different figure. Furthermore, all labor was done by myself except for installing the forged rods, pistons and heads on the engine.


Starting from blown engine to driveable (Oct 2013 THRU May 2014):


1.) Engine Failure (Oct 2013) -- I threw a rod when driving on my Greddy turbo kit. I'm not sure if the results were because of a faulty ECU (although I am still using it now) but I would assess that the rod had a manufacturing defect. The way the rod broke was nearly perfect and punched a nice "H" into the top of my small block. I was at about 2k-3k RPMs in a parking lot when it happened. The sound prior to the engine locking up was similar to winding a clock. No CELs were present at the time and the ECU was unresponsive when using my ECUtek software I had readily available.

Accumulated Costs: $75.00 (Towing)*
*I do not count loan and insurance payments during this time

2.) The corporate struggle and planning stage (Oct 2013 THRU Jan 2014) -- During this time frame I had dropped off my car to my local Toyota dealership to see if they would be willing to run a diagnostics on the ECU. My dealership would not touch the car even if I would pay for a diagnostics. The manager felt that I could "damage" his $10K diagnostic system because my ECU was modified. Crock of sh1t if you ask me. Furthermore, my dealership wanted me to remove my car within the next day or two because they did not want to be responsible for any "theft" or damage that could occur... I brought the car back to my garage and the battle between Scion Corporate began.


(Up to 24 DECEMBER 2013): The fight with corporate has become fruitless even with recorded conversations with my representative(s). I had my car transported to my father's garage (8 hours away) in a different state and decided to have another Toyota dealership look at the car (agreeing to initially pay out of pocket). The agreement with Scion Corporate was to but the car back to stock before they'd work on it. That wasn't a problem since I kept all my stock parts. I converted the car completely to stock over the whole weekend, then brought it to a local Toyota dealership to have them look at the car. **At this point I didn't still wasn't aware of the broken rod or hole in my small block. We thought the engine had seized and only the internals may need to be replaced.


The head technician at the Toyota shop we dropped the car off at said I had modified the timing and placed the timing cover (or cam cover) on backwards. I'm not sure how he was able to tell that with just lifting the hood but why would I physically remove any of the covers on the engine. Only the oil pan had been removed off that engine and ALL OTHER SEALS WERE FACTORY... I talked with my tuner and we both knew we did not physically touch the timing chain. The engine was stock and all AFRs read nominal with a damn good tune. At this point I have given up with dealing with Scion/Toyota...the car has now become my new "industrial size paperweight." LMAO


Being pissed with Toyota I paid a towing company to tow my car 2 miles down the road to a Subaru shop. I was willing to pay a subi shop to tear the engine out, take the engine apart, take pictures and write a written statement from a certified Subaru mechanic. The Subaru shop was over tasked from the big snow storm that came through so after two weeks of waiting I picked up the car and pulled the engine myself over a weekend. (continued in next section)

Accumulated Costs: ~$400.00*
Please note these costs only include transporting the car, gas for transporting, the pervious cost for towing and towing again between two dealerships, and possibly a 24-pack of beer (haha). I did not include the amount of hours talking on the phone with corporate scion, the shop time to revert the car back to stock, ongoing insurance and loan, etc.

3.) The tear down, inspection, and planning (Jan 2013 THRU Apr 2014): When I had the car back at my father's garage we tore the engine out over a weekend. That is when I noticed the hole in the small block from the rod. The small block has now become unusable, which I stripped everything off of it (all sensors, spark plugs, harnesses, high pressure fuel pump, direct injectors...everything. My father and I lifted the engine by hand (it was quite light) into the bed of the truck and drove it back to the Subaru dealership, put it on our engine stand and asked them to document the engine's current condition (to include original seals to point out Toyota's mechanic was lying) and to tear down the engine to document damage. I haven't used this information yet but could be used to sue Toyota in court.


I was lucky enough to find a full long block for sale off of eBay and it just so happened to be conveniently 1 hour away from my parents house. I was able to by the engine and stripped it down (just like the one I sent to Subaru), and brought it to Full Blown Motorsports where I had LJ and his team put forged rods and pistons in. I would have put the heads on myself but I wanted the piece of mind that they were on correctly. I put the rest of the sensors, intake manifold, spark plugs, wiring harness, etc. on myself. I was also able to pick up the analyzed blown engine during that same weekend from Subaru.

Accumulated Costs: $7,400*
This includes $2600 for the used long block, $500 for the engine break down from Subaru, $3600 for the small block build w/ parts included (machined, mapped, etc.), $300 for transportation charges/fuel, AND $400 from above.

4.) Rebuild (Apr 2014 THRU May 2014): The rebuild has begun, both engines are in the garage and I decided that I won't let Toyota touch this car again...Sh1t just got real. LJ at FBM really wanted to see his kit in my car so I decided to sell the Greddy kit. I got a really good deal on his kit because of all of the previous work with him (I won't list the prices for the turbo kit, upgraded radiator, fan shroud, fuel rails, flex fuel kit, stage 4 clutch, oil catch cans, coolant reservoir, retune, etc.--but I do have a build list that labels all cost on this car except labor charges). I decided to utilize a deal with my credit card company to finance my whole build with 0% interest for 18 months (effing awesome and saved me).


I took a week off of work to install all new components into the car and was able to drop it off at Full Blown on my way back home (in Omaha). The retune went well and didn't cost too much. We did a light tune with 18PSI on E60 to break in the newly built engine for the next 1000miles. After that I drove the car back to Full Blown and had a retune on E85. We we're comfortable with only pushing around 21PSI even though the engine was capable of 24PSI (extends the life of the turbo). Overall the cost of the build was quite a bit haha.... ehhhhh but I am really happy with my car.

Accumulated Costs: ~$17,000+*
Please note this (again) does not count all of the man hours I've put into this car, which could be around $10K. Also, I did not deduct the money I got for selling the stock radiator, Greddy turbo kit, stock fans/shroud, etc. (I would assess I got $4K for the parts I sold). So realistically I am around $13,000+ for the new parts and build since I sold the Greddy Kit.


I'm sure you also noticed but I live in a different state because of my line of work and I did all my actual car work at my father's personal shop (8 hour drive one-way). Most of this work was done on weekends when I was able to make the drive up.