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Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain.


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Old 02-10-2017, 08:22 PM   #43
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P.S. my car makes more with the stock front pipe on... which tells me something is causing a power reduction. My car also has smaller gains on Ethanol than the original 2015 car used for testing, which only tells me that my 91 tune even more spot on.
So you haven't run into issues with the stock front pipe on during track use, such as the cat over heating?
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Old 02-10-2017, 09:52 PM   #44
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So you haven't run into issues with the stock front pipe on during track use, such as the cat over heating?
I have not.

My EGTs are rather high too...
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Old 02-10-2017, 10:24 PM   #45
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- This is a dedicated AutoX car, with 2.5 years of competition on the motor. The motor may be getting tired.
Do you guys have evidence of the FA20 losing power over its lifespan?

If 2 seasons of autocross is enough to make a measurable loss of power then the way you guys track yours you must have seen a huge hit...
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Old 02-11-2017, 03:52 AM   #46
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Do you guys have evidence of the FA20 losing power over its lifespan?

If 2 seasons of autocross is enough to make a measurable loss of power then the way you guys track yours you must have seen a huge hit...
Well if you've seen how many FA20's i've already killed....

We have several local AutoX'ers who're not on their original engines as well, some NA, some FI.
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Old 02-11-2017, 02:20 PM   #47
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Well if you've seen how many FA20's i've already killed....

We have several local AutoX'ers who're not on their original engines as well, some NA, some FI.
So engines blowing = loss of power over time?

Sorry, that's a new relationship to me and based on my limited knowledge I can't even dream up a hypothetical cause and effect.

It's fine if you don't care to elaborate, it just stuck out to me as an unusual revelation given that we've entered an era where some well designed engines are still putting out factory numbers after a decade+ of abuse and these things were theoretically designed to put up with a fair amount.

I'm well aware the FA20 isn't invincible and many have blown up under mundane usage, let alone hard autox and even casual track usage.
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Old 02-11-2017, 05:00 PM   #48
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Aside from what the peak numbers show, the ace header does look to have a much nicer torque curve, IMO. You get the torque surge before 3k rpm and is maintained up to 6.8k vs the nameless where that mound of torque builds right before 4k rpm and drops at about the same spot. Another thing I noticed form looking at dyno graphs from Churches' dyno. They always read very high for a given setup compared to all others.
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Old 02-11-2017, 07:12 PM   #49
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Ten out of ten adult tuners agree, EL>UEL.
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Old 02-11-2017, 10:36 PM   #50
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So engines blowing = loss of power over time?

Sorry, that's a new relationship to me and based on my limited knowledge I can't even dream up a hypothetical cause and effect.

It's fine if you don't care to elaborate, it just stuck out to me as an unusual revelation given that we've entered an era where some well designed engines are still putting out factory numbers after a decade+ of abuse and these things were theoretically designed to put up with a fair amount.

I'm well aware the FA20 isn't invincible and many have blown up under mundane usage, let alone hard autox and even casual track usage.
Tell that to Ferrari Challenge teams who rebuild every 2000km of use because the output drops to noncompetitive levels, even for gentleman drivers.
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Old 02-11-2017, 11:28 PM   #51
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Ten out of ten adult tuners agree, EL>UEL.
Your tuners are mistaken.
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Old 02-11-2017, 11:30 PM   #52
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Tell that to Ferrari Challenge teams who rebuild every 2000km of use because the output drops to noncompetitive levels, even for gentleman drivers.
That's quite a different comparison... don't you think?
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Old 02-12-2017, 02:49 AM   #53
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You could argue that leak down numbers outside the factory allowances could constitute as a blown engine.
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Old 02-13-2017, 12:30 AM   #54
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Tell that to Ferrari Challenge teams who rebuild every 2000km of use because the output drops to noncompetitive levels, even for gentleman drivers.
Well that's exactly why I'm asking, if two measly seasons of autocross is enough to make a >$2k modification not worth it, it seems like some of us would be better off finding low mileage replacement engines than buying nice headers.
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Old 02-13-2017, 10:12 AM   #55
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Do you guys have evidence of the FA20 losing power over its lifespan?

If 2 seasons of autocross is enough to make a measurable loss of power then the way you guys track yours you must have seen a huge hit...
I will actually know how much 13 track days (some HPDE, some time attack, average track time is around 2h per track day) can do to the engine output. I will dyno it again at the same dyno it got tuned after getting headers, altho it had already seen a fair amount of track time by then (car had 3 years and over a dozen track days already when I got the headers+tune). I will try to report after I do it (if I dont forget). I still have the original dyno plots laying around (and can probably ask for an overlay of both of them).
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Old 02-13-2017, 11:30 AM   #56
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From my experience tired motors have more leakdown and less energy transfer due to worn crank and rod bearings. I wonder what effect e85 will have on valves and seats.
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