03-09-2016, 02:52 AM | #239 | |
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To add to the discussion. Porsche cars are just about the only cars on the planet that you can drive everyday, track, and drive home without issue. They are meant to be driven hard and those cars that are typically have the fewest issues. Also, the 2008 cars have a revised IMS design that is not susceptible to failure like the earlier models. In fact, it is very rare for a Cayman to have an IMS failure. Beware of low mileage and/or babied cars. Cost of ownership on a Porsche is comparable to any other car. Once a year oil changes and you're good to go. Porsche, as a whole, is the most reliable car manufacturer, which says a lot for a car that makes track purpose built street/race cars. The only 2 required mods for a tracked Cayman are an under drive pulley so you don't boil your PS fluid and Castrol SRF brake fluid.
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03-09-2016, 02:03 PM | #241 |
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Being around Porsches that are tracked extensively, I wouldn't say the cars are bulletproof. The Caymans are underbraked from the factory, unless we're talking GT4, and are plagued with the need for constant brake bleeds, with faster drivers. If you have a driver that is dependent on the VSA, then the brake bleeds will need to happen even faster. In this regard, it is no better than the FRS/BRZ.
The manual transmissions are rock solid, but the PDK will overheat if used excessively. A more advanced driver that is using the PDK efficiently and not shifting uncessarily will be fine, but a novice that is constantly shifting or using automatic mode on track will end up overheating it pretty quickly. Also, the current GTS is a far, FAR better car than the S/base. It's so different its almost hard to believe they're the same car. |
03-09-2016, 03:10 PM | #242 | |
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Really? Well Mike, I gotta ask. Whats your thoughts between the S and GTS models(cause one day, I know I will own another p-car). I thought i was being so smart in only buying an S model. But i'd like to hear your opinion on the matter. Cause usually damn't , you're right.
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03-09-2016, 04:29 PM | #243 | |
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- Different suspension geometry; car is far more planted - Higher output (unsure on exact motor differences, but there is more torque everywhere for having the same displacement) - Far, far better exhaust note tuning for hard driving, although I dislike the sound from 3-5k rpm (sounds like a fart cannon in that range, in the car). - Better front bumper configuration -> better cooling The car is not in my price range, but if it were, I would take a GTS over a S all day. I haven't had a chance to push a GT4 yet, so I can't say for sure I'd like a GT4 better than the GTS, although on paper I do. |
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03-09-2016, 04:48 PM | #244 |
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Yeah I knew it had a little higher output, but i had no idea the torque(curve) would be that much better.
More planted huh. Thats crazy. I felt in my 981S that i was cheating it was so easy to drive fast. On a 1.6 mile course i embarrassed a 997TT and 997GT3, of course that has more to do with the other drivers lack of ability. But is not like it was their first time either. Anyway, I will take better geometry. I didnt even think about the front end allowing for better cooling. Thanks Mike.
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03-09-2016, 04:59 PM | #245 |
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From what I've read online the rear brakes of the Cayman S suffer at the track, moreso than the front brakes. PSM also uses the rear brakes if activated so this can add to the problem (from what I've read).
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03-10-2016, 12:10 AM | #246 |
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In all fairness, I HAVE done lift oversteer in an Integra and a Neon. Just not in a RWD car.
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03-10-2016, 07:22 AM | #247 |
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C'mon, this is performance driving 101, lesson 1. On the gas => more understeer, off the gas => more oversteer. Power-on oversteer in a 200hp FR-S/BRZ? You'd have to be doing something pretty silly to get that in anything but 1st gear...
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03-10-2016, 07:32 AM | #248 |
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Or lower grip surfaces (like in the rain
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03-10-2016, 07:55 AM | #249 |
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My point: It does not "depend". You get more understeer with more throttle up to the point of power-on oversteer, and you get more oversteer as you get off the throttle. This is a major aspect of car control. I *cringe* every time I see someone suggest that ON the gas = OVERsteer and OFF the gas = UNDERsteer. That's F&F physics!
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03-10-2016, 01:24 PM | #250 | |
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E.g. a 458 will understeer off throttle no matter what you do, while it will oversteer at even part throttle at 3000 RPM. You can't tell me it's making a lot of power at 3000 RPM (~160hp at WOT). I also prefer to set up most cars in this fashion, and most of the race cars i drive also do this. It's faster, but not forgiving to the unsuspecting average driver. |
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03-10-2016, 02:07 PM | #251 |
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Maybe my car is weird. I know what understeer feels like. I understeer like mad all day in my Fiat 500e. I have gone off wide three times and spun out three times in the FRS on track days. The wide offs are when I felt the rear coming around so I straightened out. That was at the end of turn 3 at Laguna Seca, turn 9 at Big Willow, and 15 at Thunderhill. I have spun out on turns 3 and 6 at Thunderhill and turn 4 at Laguna Seca (in the rain). All the times I lose grip are at the end of the turns when I'm on the throttle after going in too hot. No sudden moves. No jumping off the throttle. Not floored. Stock FRS suspension + front crash bolts + zero toe + ESC off but no pedal dance? Mechanical variance? I dunno. My Dodge Neon came from the factory with the wrong springs. I liked to say that it was factory lowered. It was a great performer. On the road, when ESC does kick in, it's almost always in the back. The rear is EASILY upset.
Looking at the list above, clearly I'm terrible at this stuff.
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03-11-2016, 07:22 AM | #252 | ||||
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I've driven a lot of students cars over the years (not a 458!), and from general understeery stockish fwd cars to generally oversteery track-only and race cars, they all will point more IN when you get off the gas a bit, and will run wider as you get on the gas. |
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