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Old 12-04-2012, 04:18 PM   #15
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I think there's some confusion going on here.

You're getting different types of information mixed up. For our purposes, I'll break them up into 4 categories.

1) Universal OBD II diagnostic PIDs. This is set by the standard j1979 , with the latest relevant revision (digital annex section) being released in October 2011. That's what these universal tools read. They're standardized PIDs (PID = Parameter ID). The basic stuff is going to be readable on every OBD II vehicle, like coolant temperature. The more recently added (and application specific) stuff like PID 71, Commanded Variable Geometry Turbo A Position, is basically up to the manufacturer.

2) Manufacturer-specific diagnostic PIDs. This is information that a dealership technician can read using service communication protocols. It's like Techstream and such. I am not sure a universal tool can be easily configured to read these. This same protocol can be used for active testing of various actuators and modules on the vehicle, like the low pressure fuel pump.

3) Proprietary CAN messages. This definitely has to be reverse-engineered. Basically, a ton of information passes along the CAN network. You can listen to it all you want if you have the right tools. Probably the most common commercial tool is Vector CANalyzer, which is expensive software requiring expensive interface hardware. Even if you have this hardware, all you will see is a bunch of hexadecimal nonsense.

You need to have the CAN database file to get descriptions and actual units. for the messages being passed around. The CAN database is under lock-and-key. This information is accessed on a need-to-know basis. Only certain development engineers and technicians will have it. A supplier might get an abridged version that applies only to their specific projects.

That being said, if you know what you're looking at you can start to figure out what the messages mean. For example, you could guess what the headlight switch status message is by flipping the headlights on and recording the messages that go across the bus. Obviously this is a tedious process, and getting more complex stuff like steering angle, yaw rate, transmission temperature, etc is not going to be easy.

4) ECU RAM addresses. This is physically reading calculated values inside the ECU. Something like ECUtek is going to be able to do this, because somebody reverse-engineered how to get access. Then they reverse-engineered the RAM addresses for specific signals and hopefully figured out what they mean.

Realistically, you are probably only going to get #1 from this list using a cheap Android app. The PID list is in j1979 and is thus not confidential information. Then you have to figure out what the vehicle is reporting and see how fast it is reporting the information. Typically OBD requests are low priority on the CAN network, so you might not get a great sample rate.
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:37 PM   #16
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I think there's some confusion going on here.

You're getting different types of information mixed up. For our purposes, I'll break them up into 4 categories.

1) Universal OBD II diagnostic PIDs. This is set by the standard j1979 , with the latest relevant revision (digital annex section) being released in October 2011. That's what these universal tools read. They're standardized PIDs (PID = Parameter ID). The basic stuff is going to be readable on every OBD II vehicle, like coolant temperature. The more recently added (and application specific) stuff like PID 71, Commanded Variable Geometry Turbo A Position, is basically up to the manufacturer.

Realistically, you are probably only going to get #1 from this list using a cheap Android app. The PID list is in j1979 and is thus not confidential information. Then you have to figure out what the vehicle is reporting and see how fast it is reporting the information. Typically OBD requests are low priority on the CAN network, so you might not get a great sample rate.
Thanks for the input, although the app might be cheap, it is quite advanced, have you seen the app or used it all? It is to my current existing knowledge that if we had access to the "Manufacturer-specific diagnostic PIDs" we would be able to input them in the app via the Advanced OBD Management section under customer predefined sensors and have access to thing like Engine Oil Temp.
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:32 PM   #17
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I'm not an expert on manufacturer-specific diagnostic protocols for service/technician use. The first response that comes to mind though is, "Don't confuse manufacturer-specific diagnostic trouble codes with manufacturer-specific PIDs for manufacturer-specific diagnostic tools."

I can read a manufacturer-specific DTC all day with a $20 Autozone scantool. They are, for example, P1xxx . P0xxx are universal. But taking realtime data in the same way that a dealership Toyota tool does may not be so straightforward. I'm certainly open to anyone else who can chime in with real-world experience on this.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:56 AM   #18
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Got the OBD-Bluetooth interface and Torque Pro...everything is fine. I see revs, boost and all the other data on display BUT when I check the trackLog-****.csv file exported I don't see anything aside from the GPS data: GPS Time, Device Time, Longitude, Latitude,GPS Speed (Meters/second), Horizontal Dilution of Precision, Altitude, Bearing, G(x), G(y), G(z), G(calibrated),
What am I doing wrong?

I need the datalogging not only for analysys but also to import them through excel into RaceChrono2Avi and put them in videos.
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:49 AM   #19
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Nobody?
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:43 PM   #20
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Nobody?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you go into your settings, and then I think theres a datalogging section, cant you specify what sensors you want to log and what not?
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Old 12-06-2012, 03:11 PM   #21
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you go into your settings, and then I think theres a datalogging section, cant you specify what sensors you want to log and what not?
Correct if u go into settings you can select the exact pids you want to log
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Old 12-06-2012, 03:17 PM   #22
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I have my nexus 7 mounted right on the dash with the Kroppson, its awesome! Pics in the build album on my profile, if the one below doesn't work

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Old 12-06-2012, 03:45 PM   #23
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I have my nexus 7 mounted right on the dash with the Kroppson, its awesome! Pics in the build album on my profile, if the one below doesn't work

Is that a redundant flip switch starter? Love the mount you have in your car, but I love my AC for days when the air quality is literally "huffing an active volcanic vent". Can you mount that Kroppson anywhere else?
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Old 12-06-2012, 03:54 PM   #24
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Is that a redundant flip switch starter? Love the mount you have in your car, but I love my AC for days when the air quality is literally "huffing an active volcanic vent". Can you mount that Kroppson anywhere else?
lol that switch is for the KC daylighters behind the front grill. The kroppson has the sticky suction cup, and can be mounted anywhere on the dash. You can also raise it up above the vents, I have mine so air will still mostly flow past it. I also don't always have the nexus mounted, most of the time I have it down.
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Old 12-06-2012, 04:04 PM   #25
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lol that switch is for the KC daylighters behind the front grill. The kroppson has the sticky suction cup, and can be mounted anywhere on the dash. You can also raise it up above the vents, I have mine so air will still mostly flow past it. I also don't always have the nexus mounted, most of the time I have it down.
Holy rusted metal Batman! Daylighters! Turning the car into a rally car huh? =)

Thanks for the info!:happy0180:
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Old 12-06-2012, 04:13 PM   #26
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I have my nexus 7 mounted right on the dash with the Kroppson, its awesome! Pics in the build album on my profile, if the one below doesn't work
Very nice! How much was the mount and does it hold it well? Can you accelerate and makes abrupt movements without it falling?
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Old 12-06-2012, 04:27 PM   #27
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Holy rusted metal Batman! Daylighters! Turning the car into a rally car huh? =)

Thanks for the info!:happy0180:
Haha absolutely! I actually have a friend who is whipping up a small bull bar for the lights on the front, so I'll have room for an intercooler. We will see how it looks, I am 50/50 on it until I see it!
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Old 12-06-2012, 04:31 PM   #28
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Very nice! How much was the mount and does it hold it well? Can you accelerate and makes abrupt movements without it falling?
I haven't been too crazy with the nexus in yet, but the mount has stayed on the dash through some hellish test driving after I got my sways and springs put in >:]. I'm 99% positive it will hold up with the nexus as well.

I think it was around $50 on ebay, very high quality though, I was expecting somewhat of a junky product, but am very impressed.
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